4 ms·

This seems like terrible advice. If someone tried to ask the same question to me about a past colleague multiple times in an attempt to get me to say something

by RyanZAG 14y ago

This seems like terrible advice. If someone tried to ask the same question to me about a past colleague multiple times in an attempt to get me to say something bad about them, I'd end the call very quickly. In fact, the only information I ever give about a past colleague is either that they were great to work with (if their performance was acceptable) or no comment at all (if their performance wasn't). Badmouthing a past colleague is just plain immoral and likely to lead to many closed doors for everyone involved in the future when that past colleague is now heading up a billion dollar company. You contact references with only one question or you are making a huge mistake. "Did So-and-so work there from X to Y in a position of Z? Was he dismissed for any offense? Thank you for the information, good bye."

ambiate 14y ago
I completely agree with you. In fact, in certain states/cities, there are legal ramifications for calling businesses or references asking anything outside the realm of 'Did they work there, yes or no?'
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
niggler 14y ago
In fact, in many industries, the most that HR people (and sometimes employees) are allowed to say is the employment start and end dates
- Domenic_S 14y ago
  It seems so strange to me. We share the articles we read, we comment all over the internet (sometimes using our real names), we share and publicize our code on Github, send tweets into the eternal ether, post pictures of us and our families -- but ask someone I worked with what they think of me and OMG THAT'S SO TERRIBLE, IMMORAL, AND POSSIBLY ILLEGAL. The dichotomy blows my mind. You should be proud of your career and the impact you've made.
  - niggler 14y ago
    Lemme explain why it matters: Suppose we were coworkers, and you found out that I was entertaining a job offer with another company. How would you react? Would you be asking me to do more work (knowing that I might not be there soon)? No, most likely you would try to wind down any work we were mutually involved with, in anticipation of my announcement. Take it to the next level. If my boss found out I was looking for a new job, I'd be on very thin ice. The boss wouldn't entrust me with any long-term or cool project, nor would he give me a promotion unless there was a strong sense that he could retain me by giving a promotion. And even if I did stay on, it would still nag at the boss and would forever tarnish the working relationship. The problem isn't the actual opinion. It's really the ramifications of others knowing you are looking for a job. And that's something I do care about, regardless of how proud I am of my career. (and for the record, I am proud of my accomplishments :)
  - michaelochurch 14y ago
    The dichotomy blows my mind. You should be proud of your career and the impact you've made. If you've done anything worth being proud of, then it's likely that some people will hate your guts and want to sabotage you-- and powerful people are more likely than average to dislike you. A roulette game in one's career (back-channel references) that one didn't ask for is undesirable to anyone.
  - BSousa 14y ago
    Let's suppose I was a super programmer that made the company millions, but I also slept with the boss's girlfriend. If someone asks the boss for a reference, what do you think will motivate the boss more? The million of dollars or the fact I slept with his girlfriend? This is exaggerated of course, but it isn't uncommon, specially at large companies, to be a good professional, but have personal issues with some of the people there.
    - niggler 14y ago
      "The dichotomy blows my mind. You should be proud of your career and the impact you've made." "but I also slept with the boss's girlfriend." Strictly speaking, this is an example of an impact that you probably shouldn't be proud of.
notahacker 14y ago
A corollary is that people approaching references as an opportunity to get answers to questions they missed in the interview will flag false alarms because busy involuntary referees decide they don't want to list specific examples of where Candidate X was unusually productive, or have no idea whether X was in the top 3 or top hundred team members they've ever worked with for accurate record-keeping.
larsberg 14y ago
As a manager at Microsoft, I wasn't allowed to answer anything further than confirming or denying employment. I don't believe I was even allowed to confirm/deny offense-based dismissal.

by RyanZAG 14y ago

ambiate 14y ago

I completely agree with you. In fact, in certain states/cities, there are legal ramifications for calling businesses or references asking anything outside the realm of 'Did they work there, yes or no?'

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

niggler 14y ago

In fact, in many industries, the most that HR people (and sometimes employees) are allowed to say is the employment start and end dates

Domenic_S 14y ago
It seems so strange to me. We share the articles we read, we comment all over the internet (sometimes using our real names), we share and publicize our code on Github, send tweets into the eternal ether, post pictures of us and our families -- but ask someone I worked with what they think of me and OMG THAT'S SO TERRIBLE, IMMORAL, AND POSSIBLY ILLEGAL. The dichotomy blows my mind. You should be proud of your career and the impact you've made.
- niggler 14y ago
  Lemme explain why it matters: Suppose we were coworkers, and you found out that I was entertaining a job offer with another company. How would you react? Would you be asking me to do more work (knowing that I might not be there soon)? No, most likely you would try to wind down any work we were mutually involved with, in anticipation of my announcement. Take it to the next level. If my boss found out I was looking for a new job, I'd be on very thin ice. The boss wouldn't entrust me with any long-term or cool project, nor would he give me a promotion unless there was a strong sense that he could retain me by giving a promotion. And even if I did stay on, it would still nag at the boss and would forever tarnish the working relationship. The problem isn't the actual opinion. It's really the ramifications of others knowing you are looking for a job. And that's something I do care about, regardless of how proud I am of my career. (and for the record, I am proud of my accomplishments :)
- michaelochurch 14y ago
  The dichotomy blows my mind. You should be proud of your career and the impact you've made. If you've done anything worth being proud of, then it's likely that some people will hate your guts and want to sabotage you-- and powerful people are more likely than average to dislike you. A roulette game in one's career (back-channel references) that one didn't ask for is undesirable to anyone.
- BSousa 14y ago
  Let's suppose I was a super programmer that made the company millions, but I also slept with the boss's girlfriend. If someone asks the boss for a reference, what do you think will motivate the boss more? The million of dollars or the fact I slept with his girlfriend? This is exaggerated of course, but it isn't uncommon, specially at large companies, to be a good professional, but have personal issues with some of the people there.
  - niggler 14y ago
    "The dichotomy blows my mind. You should be proud of your career and the impact you've made." "but I also slept with the boss's girlfriend." Strictly speaking, this is an example of an impact that you probably shouldn't be proud of.

notahacker 14y ago

A corollary is that people approaching references as an opportunity to get answers to questions they missed in the interview will flag false alarms because busy involuntary referees decide they don't want to list specific examples of where Candidate X was unusually productive, or have no idea whether X was in the top 3 or top hundred team members they've ever worked with for accurate record-keeping.

larsberg 14y ago

As a manager at Microsoft, I wasn't allowed to answer anything further than confirming or denying employment. I don't believe I was even allowed to confirm/deny offense-based dismissal.