4 ms·

Sure there is no good-guy and bad-guy here. But there is a better guy, and a worse guy, and that largely depends on what you value most. For me, the tactics of

Sure there is no good-guy and bad-guy here. But there is a better guy, and a worse guy, and that largely depends on what you value most. For me, the tactics of Apple using legal methods to try to squash competition are a huge red flag, because I happen to think that the consumer is going to pay for that. You can think that Apple defending its rights is going to benefit the consumer long-term by allowing Apple to provide innovation. But my viewpoint is that Apple can not compete anymore, and is resorting to legal tactics to fight competition. And that (if they had won) they would have a lock-in in a growing and very important market segment (high end smartphones). Luckily the "good guys" have largely won. It is just a matter of point of view.

simonh 14y ago
> For me, the tactics of Apple using legal methods to try to squash competition are a huge red flag, because I happen to think that the consumer is going to pay for that. Because nobody ever heard of a mobile phone company suing the competition to limit their ability to compete before right? I mean before Apple V Samsung it was unheard of. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2003456/Nokia-finally-claims-multi-million-dollar-victory-Apple-breaching-46-patents.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2003456/Nokia... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8460899.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8460899.stm http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2010/oct/04/microsoft-motorola-android-patent-lawsuit http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2010/oct/04/microsoft-m... I do agree with you that competition benefits the consumer. A vibrant Android ecosystem is in the interests of iPhone users like me. But the Apple lawsuit was never going to stop anyone else making modern smartphones. That's not what it was about, which is why despite a (currently) $0.5Bn settlement in their favour Apple hansn't gone on to sue anyone else. Apple were very clear about the reasons why they sued Samsung and their objectives, and their behaviour has been consistent with that.
- gonvaled 14y ago
  Sure, but those are not design-related patents, or natural-gesture patents, or for that matter designs based on principles being part of human society for centuries ("slide to unlock" anyone?) "Nokia finally claims multi-million dollar victory over Apple for breaching up to 46 patents" "Camera maker Kodak has said it will sue Apple and Research In Motion (RIM), the makers of the iPhone and Blackberry, over technology used in their handsets." I do not condone those actions. I just think that Apple is here the "worse-guy", opening a very smelly can of worms just because of animosity towards Android (http://9to5mac.com/2013/01/17/google-ceo-larry-page-on-steve-jobs-thermonuclear-war-how-well-is-that-working-for-them http://9to5mac.com/2013/01/17/google-ceo-larry-page-on-steve...) And yes, Microsoft is an even worse bad-guy (but largely irrelevant in the smartphone sector), that is why I have not (directly) spent a penny on their products in over 15 years.
illo 14y ago
In which way a market can truly be split between (ideologically) better and worse players (this is a sincere question, no rethorics)? My point of view is that all the companies involved in this mobile-market dance happened and will happen (sometimes willingly) to turn out evil or good based on what better suits them in a particular point in time. I'm confident it will take just time for Samsung to show they're just a company (no deontology involved). Same goes for Google, HTC, LG, whatever. Apple, they chose the wrong juncture and now are paying that by (deservingly) facing endless bad publicity. So, no, I don't think the "good guys" won (let alone the fact that profit-wise they're actually all winning right now), I can't even think about them being good guys... just companies.
- gonvaled 14y ago
  Well, this is hair-splitting, but I'll bite. A company can be considered (by me) a "good-guy" if: 1 - they do not want to steal from me (by using legal tactics to shut down competitors) 2 - they are not making my life difficult (by actively fighting standardization of protocols/formats) Bonus points for improving life for everybody by releasing quality open source software (which Apple has done, in a limited way) I have yet to be disappointed by Google. I am sure I will, sometime in the future, but not yet (lots of open source software, little legal activity - mostly retaliation - data liberation, open formats) I have systematically been negatively affected by Microsoft (I am still waiting for a universally accepted document format, which Microsoft largely destroyed with their back-room tactics against ODF; I am also fed up that most laptops on the market are only offered with Windows tax - which I attribute to Microsoft abusing their OEM market power) And Apple has tried to reduce my choice on the Smartphone market (it has failed); they are trying to destroy a truly open applications market on the web (by offering "Apps", same applies to Google, following suit); and they are largely responsible for the trend in locked-in content (iTunes, books, whatever)
  - jolohaga 14y ago
    Given the web is so wide open and been available for over 20 years to the public, I fail to see how Apple is responsible for this lock-in trend. Rather Apple has aptly uncovered an untapped desire among the public, which the web failed to provide. Yes, you can say Apple started it, so they're responsible. But this desire was ready for the pickin's. I don't fault Apple for picking it up. It must have been obvious to them.

simonh 14y ago

> For me, the tactics of Apple using legal methods to try to squash competition are a huge red flag, because I happen to think that the consumer is going to pay for that. Because nobody ever heard of a mobile phone company suing the competition to limit their ability to compete before right? I mean before Apple V Samsung it was unheard of. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2003456/Nokia-finally-claims-multi-million-dollar-victory-Apple-breaching-46-patents.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2003456/Nokia... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8460899.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8460899.stm http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2010/oct/04/microsoft-motorola-android-patent-lawsuit http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2010/oct/04/microsoft-m... I do agree with you that competition benefits the consumer. A vibrant Android ecosystem is in the interests of iPhone users like me. But the Apple lawsuit was never going to stop anyone else making modern smartphones. That's not what it was about, which is why despite a (currently) $0.5Bn settlement in their favour Apple hansn't gone on to sue anyone else. Apple were very clear about the reasons why they sued Samsung and their objectives, and their behaviour has been consistent with that.

gonvaled 14y ago
Sure, but those are not design-related patents, or natural-gesture patents, or for that matter designs based on principles being part of human society for centuries ("slide to unlock" anyone?) "Nokia finally claims multi-million dollar victory over Apple for breaching up to 46 patents" "Camera maker Kodak has said it will sue Apple and Research In Motion (RIM), the makers of the iPhone and Blackberry, over technology used in their handsets." I do not condone those actions. I just think that Apple is here the "worse-guy", opening a very smelly can of worms just because of animosity towards Android (http://9to5mac.com/2013/01/17/google-ceo-larry-page-on-steve-jobs-thermonuclear-war-how-well-is-that-working-for-them http://9to5mac.com/2013/01/17/google-ceo-larry-page-on-steve...) And yes, Microsoft is an even worse bad-guy (but largely irrelevant in the smartphone sector), that is why I have not (directly) spent a penny on their products in over 15 years.

illo 14y ago

In which way a market can truly be split between (ideologically) better and worse players (this is a sincere question, no rethorics)? My point of view is that all the companies involved in this mobile-market dance happened and will happen (sometimes willingly) to turn out evil or good based on what better suits them in a particular point in time. I'm confident it will take just time for Samsung to show they're just a company (no deontology involved). Same goes for Google, HTC, LG, whatever. Apple, they chose the wrong juncture and now are paying that by (deservingly) facing endless bad publicity. So, no, I don't think the "good guys" won (let alone the fact that profit-wise they're actually all winning right now), I can't even think about them being good guys... just companies.

gonvaled 14y ago
Well, this is hair-splitting, but I'll bite. A company can be considered (by me) a "good-guy" if: 1 - they do not want to steal from me (by using legal tactics to shut down competitors) 2 - they are not making my life difficult (by actively fighting standardization of protocols/formats) Bonus points for improving life for everybody by releasing quality open source software (which Apple has done, in a limited way) I have yet to be disappointed by Google. I am sure I will, sometime in the future, but not yet (lots of open source software, little legal activity - mostly retaliation - data liberation, open formats) I have systematically been negatively affected by Microsoft (I am still waiting for a universally accepted document format, which Microsoft largely destroyed with their back-room tactics against ODF; I am also fed up that most laptops on the market are only offered with Windows tax - which I attribute to Microsoft abusing their OEM market power) And Apple has tried to reduce my choice on the Smartphone market (it has failed); they are trying to destroy a truly open applications market on the web (by offering "Apps", same applies to Google, following suit); and they are largely responsible for the trend in locked-in content (iTunes, books, whatever)
- jolohaga 14y ago
  Given the web is so wide open and been available for over 20 years to the public, I fail to see how Apple is responsible for this lock-in trend. Rather Apple has aptly uncovered an untapped desire among the public, which the web failed to provide. Yes, you can say Apple started it, so they're responsible. But this desire was ready for the pickin's. I don't fault Apple for picking it up. It must have been obvious to them.