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Why not do something creative like have the investor sign a dollar bill (of any denomination) and give it to the founders? Every founder comes prepared with so
by kirse 14y ago
Why not do something creative like have the investor sign a dollar bill (of any denomination) and give it to the founders?
Every founder comes prepared with some cash in their wallet, and then when you confirm a deal the founders ask the investors to sign the dollar bill with a Sharpie/pen. On it would be some sort of short-hand for the deal valuation... Cash is more ubiquitous than phones - even impromptu, it's highly likely one person will have a cash on them - plus you don't have to deal with sharing emails, phone signal, phone battery, waiting for that text/email message to come through, blah-dee-blah.
And then you can frame it and do all sorts of other creative/cutesy stuff. If YC made it a tradition to do a "signed cash" deal as a way of indicating the confirmation of a deal, it'd make for a cool way of looking back at all the great (or not-so-great) investments... sort of like that whole "my first dollar" thing some people do.
- rthomas6 14y ago>Cash is more ubiquitous than phones Are you sure? Right now I have a phone but I don't have any cash.
- zheng 14y agoUnless I'm explicitly buying something with cash, I'm almost always in the state of no cash, but with my phone.
- wuest 14y agoThe last time I had cash on my person, it was because I was traveling, and wanted some on hand. I haven't carried cash, as a rule, in almost a decade.
- a3_nm 14y agoI'm not in the valley, but I have the opposite policy: I systematically use cash unless it is not possible to do so. (It's better for privacy.)
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- amalcon 14y agoI have your policy, but for a different reason: I generally don't want the merchant to be charged a fee for the transaction.
- wuest 14y agoTotally valid reason. I use cards for the sake of ease of tracking and protections offered by cards. I wish there were an optimal situation wherein you had privacy and protection both.
- mfringel 14y agoI have a feeling that it's regional. I live in Boston, and there are still significant amounts of restaurants that don't take credit cards.
- sbashyal 14y agoI just created a poll to find out the statistics among HNers. Please vote: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5377521 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5377521
- te_chris 14y agoYep, here in NZ I never have cash and make electronic payments for everything (even $1 convenience transactions).
- samstave 14y agoThis is a fantastic idea, and there is no reason that this couldnt be an option to the Handshake Protocol. Also, these bills will be sold off and collected when massive failures happen in later years.
- brohee 14y agoDon't forget to do it before witnesses, preferably a Secret Service agent. "-STATUTE- Whoever mutilates, cuts, defaces, disfigures, or perforates, or unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national banking association, or Federal Reserve bank, or the Federal Reserve System, with intent to render such bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt unfit to be reissued, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both. " 18 USC CHAPTER 17 - COINS AND CURRENCY http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/18C17.txt http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/18C17.txt
- samstave 14y agoSome rules are meant to be broken.
- Karunamon 14y agoImportant text: with intent to render such bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt unfit to be reissued No destroying money for the express purpose of destroying money.
- samstave 14y agoExactly! My comment refers to actually making a bill potentially MORE valuable in its re-issuance to another party after the signing event! (legality of such statement to be reviewed by people qualified to do so, and kudos to those that find in favor and BOOOOO to those who admonish!)
- pja 14y agoSo the K Foundation stunt (burning £1million in cash) would have been illegal in the US?
- pg 14y agoThat's an amusing idea. It would be fine with me if that variant evolved. But it would have seemed frivolous if we'd proposed that.
- larrys 14y agoThe more you do things like that the idea becomes balkanized and you move further from your intention which is nice, simple, easy to remember and understand.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- mtrimpe 14y agoI keep wishing someone takes up the frighteningly ambitious idea here: developing a low-friction government approved (through e.g. legal precedent) service for signing data. After a passport/identiy check it would technically just be a highly available service to cryptographically sign blobs, coupled with a mechanism to handle retractions of signed data in case of compromised keys and a decently advanced notification system for early detection of suspected fraud. On a societal level however, this would enable anything from frictionless contract signing apps to building a Kickstarter for organizing ad-hoc grass-roots referendums whose results are provably meaningful.
- davidmr 14y agoI just bought a house and never signed one piece of paper in the process (up to the closing, of course. Then I signed several hundred pieces of paper.) All of the contractual agreements until then were signed digitally through DocuSign and they even have a nifty little iphone app. Of course they were all contracts written by my lawyers, but that counts as data. The concept of a written signature is far less relevant than it used to be. As people have mentioned actually signing a piece of paper digitally or otherwise isn't required for many legally binding contracts. (For example, my previous lease on my apartment was an email exchange between me and my landlord agreeing on the terms. Had he or I broken the terms of it, it would have been enforceable in court (in IL at least; anywhere else I couldn't say.))
- ghshephard 14y agoNumerous Reasons: o Everyone has a mobile device at all times, trying to remember to carry cash and/pens is an extra step. Cash, in the valley, is not as ubiquitous as a phone. In fact, it's not as ubiquitous as a smart phone. o Texting is instantaneous. In fact, when we're sitting at a table having a conversation, it's not unusual for some people to be texting each other instead of talking to avoid creating a break in the conversation / side conversation. o Central, Secure, two-party tracking with SMS/WhatsApp/iMessage. Nice Audit trail as well, and you have it all handy on your phone to keep track of things. Nobody wants to deal with more little pieces of paper.
- kirse 14y agoOK people, I get it, you don't carry cash, etc etc. I'm just imagining myself using whatever I have on me to come to a quick agreement on a precise valuation and secure a solid "affirmative" from an investor, beyond a basic verbal agreement. So whether that's scrawled on a dollar bill, transmitted officially via the "PG Handshake Protocol", or signed on your ass with a picture in the mirror for posterity... doesn't matter, have fun with it and get it done!
- ghshephard 14y agoWell, my arguments for Cash would be: o Physical Tokens continue to have real value beyond the ephemerality of digital data. o A scrawled signature is both somewhat of an validation of identification, plus, it's a somewhat more concrete step than just sending an email. There is ceremony around it. o With a bit of thought, you can create a Mini-Term sheet that can be signed/counter signed. o Sharpie on Dollar bill is harder to modify / change - particularly if you have a number of signatures that have been built up on it. o That multi-signed dollar bill would have a lot of potency, particularly if you are able to assemble a top-tier investment group. Suitable for framing.
- rohin 14y agoAt least for us, almost all of our "handshake" confirmations for funding came over email after we had met with the investor in person or the phone.
- larrys 14y ago"And then you can frame it and do all sorts of other creative/cutesy stuff." Restaurants do that frequently with their first sale. (Cynically: The other $$ end up in their pockets, untaxed).
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- minimax 14y agoWhat I like most about is that it embodies the idea that funding is an end rather than a means. Rather than commemorating revenue you're celebrating funding. It's perfect for the VC centric world of Silicon Valley.
- jwp 14y agoThis is exactly the same handshake deal the founders of Fairchild Semiconductor did with each other.
- tempaccount9473 14y agoPeople are more likely to carry a smartphone than a sharpie. Other than that, I really like your idea.
- tobyjsullivan 14y agoIf a dollar bill is signed, only one party has a record (which can easily be spent and conveniently lost forever). If an email is sent, both parties have a record.
- lominming 14y agoReminds me of Ron Conway's Google receipt investment story. Signing on a dollar bill is interesting. Small shops/cafes frame the first dollar bill they earned. Similarly, founders can frame the first 'dollar' investment.