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though I do not see any licenses problem with that CC-SA License in both StackOverflow and CNprog I do see an ethics problem in the CNProg staff using an exact

by barredo 18y ago

though I do not see any licenses problem with that CC-SA License in both StackOverflow and CNprog I do see an ethics problem in the CNProg staff using an exact copy. Isn't there ANY thing to improve in StackOverflow? It's a perfect design for everything? Couldn't the Chinese webmasters made a few changes they thought will improve the site? Even the colours? Even the size of the fonts? It's all China can do? Copy western things, making them cheaper due to their lower salaries compared with Western salaries? Because it's what it seems to be.

sho 18y ago
"I do see an ethics problem" An ethics problem with cloning a site and releasing it as open source? Under an Apache license no less? http://code.google.com/p/cnprog/source/browse/#svn/trunk http://code.google.com/p/cnprog/source/browse/#svn/trunk Not only do I not have an "ethics" problem with that, I think it's a good thing. "Isn't there ANY thing to improve in StackOverflow? " Well, they "improved" the logo! Seriously though, it's probably a single guy. He probably can't afford a designer, hell it's probably a hobby site. He probably, like me, absolutely loathes writing CSS and so just copied the whole thing. I don't see what the big deal is; you see things like blog themes cloned/ported all the time. And he did do a lot of work - he rewrote the whole thing in Django and released it open source! Isn't that something? Compared to the effort involved in writing the back end, the font sizes are not a big deal. "It's all China can do? Copy western things, making them cheaper due to their lower salaries compared with Western salaries?" Now this borders on offensive. China is not some giant hive mind, acting as a whole in pursuit of a grand shared vision. It's a nation of individuals just like the USA - if anything it's even more diverse. You don't even know if the owner of this site is in China. Regardless, shame on you for lumping "them" all together like that. Anyway, developing countries have a long and glorious tradition of shamelessly stealing the intellectual work of their more established contemporaries, including America, back in the day. 40 years ago it was Japan stealing from the USA. Now Americans copy their cultural styles all the time. And let's not forget where that grand American company, Disney, filched all its fairytale ideas from. What do you think the Germans thought when Disney copied practically every Grimm brothers story ever written, making billions, and now dares to protect and market its "trademarks"? Doesn't seem so bad when it's your side doing it, does it? But the german newspapers of the time said exactly what you just said about China - all the Amerikaner can do is copy and hide behind convenient legal fictions. Pull back and take the larger perspective. Stack Overflow is a good thing, right? Well, now it's open source, with a Chinese version online. It's still a good thing. And the Chinese programmer who takes your outsourced job will be that much more knowledgeable a programmer because of it ; ) (edited to emphasise & link to the open source code for the site)
- deleted 18y ago
  [deleted]
- carbon8 18y ago
  I don't see what the big deal is For one, it's borderline fraud if users don't know what site they are on. Perhaps that's not the case in this situation, but there are many situations where it is the case. Secondly, it's a dirty move. Cloning a website no different than creating a cola, naming it "Cokke," copying the packaging and having it stocked on shelves next to the original.
  - jhancock 18y ago
    Its not borderline fraud. Fraud is an act of deception. There is no deception here.
    - carbon8 18y ago
      My statement was a conditional if statement: If someone clones a product or service to the point that it confuses users, that's borderline fraudulent activity and deceptive. This is usually a different kind of issue for material products and geographically-limited services, but the web is global and most web apps are already available in the market, making a carbon copy in another language absolutely no different than a carbon copy in one of the app's supported languages.
      - jhancock 18y ago
        I have to disagree with most of this. My perspective may be unique in that I am a "white" American and have been nurturing programming groups from Shanghai for 9 years now. Let me begin by saying there is and never has been a promise that the first creator of something on the web has rights to world domination. Its a naive and childish notion of "mine". The position that an English based community can serve the world shows you do not understand that the Chinese community would never have immersed themselves into the current StackOverflow community. They need their own Mandarin based "community" that is run "within China". It is a great thing to see the Chinese programming community mature. They need their own forums for this to happen. Expecting or demanding they assimilate into the English language community shows a lack of understanding of how communities form and nurture themselves.
jhancock 18y ago
barredo, I understand this is what it "seems to be". The "Copy western things, making them cheaper due to their lower salaries" may not be true in this case. There have been many cases where your view applies. I just do not think so in this case.

by barredo 18y ago

sho 18y ago

"I do see an ethics problem" An ethics problem with cloning a site and releasing it as open source? Under an Apache license no less? http://code.google.com/p/cnprog/source/browse/#svn/trunk http://code.google.com/p/cnprog/source/browse/#svn/trunk Not only do I not have an "ethics" problem with that, I think it's a good thing. "Isn't there ANY thing to improve in StackOverflow? " Well, they "improved" the logo! Seriously though, it's probably a single guy. He probably can't afford a designer, hell it's probably a hobby site. He probably, like me, absolutely loathes writing CSS and so just copied the whole thing. I don't see what the big deal is; you see things like blog themes cloned/ported all the time. And he did do a lot of work - he rewrote the whole thing in Django and released it open source! Isn't that something? Compared to the effort involved in writing the back end, the font sizes are not a big deal. "It's all China can do? Copy western things, making them cheaper due to their lower salaries compared with Western salaries?" Now this borders on offensive. China is not some giant hive mind, acting as a whole in pursuit of a grand shared vision. It's a nation of individuals just like the USA - if anything it's even more diverse. You don't even know if the owner of this site is in China. Regardless, shame on you for lumping "them" all together like that. Anyway, developing countries have a long and glorious tradition of shamelessly stealing the intellectual work of their more established contemporaries, including America, back in the day. 40 years ago it was Japan stealing from the USA. Now Americans copy their cultural styles all the time. And let's not forget where that grand American company, Disney, filched all its fairytale ideas from. What do you think the Germans thought when Disney copied practically every Grimm brothers story ever written, making billions, and now dares to protect and market its "trademarks"? Doesn't seem so bad when it's your side doing it, does it? But the german newspapers of the time said exactly what you just said about China - all the Amerikaner can do is copy and hide behind convenient legal fictions. Pull back and take the larger perspective. Stack Overflow is a good thing, right? Well, now it's open source, with a Chinese version online. It's still a good thing. And the Chinese programmer who takes your outsourced job will be that much more knowledgeable a programmer because of it ; ) (edited to emphasise & link to the open source code for the site)

deleted 18y ago
[deleted]
carbon8 18y ago
I don't see what the big deal is For one, it's borderline fraud if users don't know what site they are on. Perhaps that's not the case in this situation, but there are many situations where it is the case. Secondly, it's a dirty move. Cloning a website no different than creating a cola, naming it "Cokke," copying the packaging and having it stocked on shelves next to the original.
- jhancock 18y ago
  Its not borderline fraud. Fraud is an act of deception. There is no deception here.
  - carbon8 18y ago
    My statement was a conditional if statement: If someone clones a product or service to the point that it confuses users, that's borderline fraudulent activity and deceptive. This is usually a different kind of issue for material products and geographically-limited services, but the web is global and most web apps are already available in the market, making a carbon copy in another language absolutely no different than a carbon copy in one of the app's supported languages.
    - jhancock 18y ago
      I have to disagree with most of this. My perspective may be unique in that I am a "white" American and have been nurturing programming groups from Shanghai for 9 years now. Let me begin by saying there is and never has been a promise that the first creator of something on the web has rights to world domination. Its a naive and childish notion of "mine". The position that an English based community can serve the world shows you do not understand that the Chinese community would never have immersed themselves into the current StackOverflow community. They need their own Mandarin based "community" that is run "within China". It is a great thing to see the Chinese programming community mature. They need their own forums for this to happen. Expecting or demanding they assimilate into the English language community shows a lack of understanding of how communities form and nurture themselves.

jhancock 18y ago

barredo, I understand this is what it "seems to be". The "Copy western things, making them cheaper due to their lower salaries" may not be true in this case. There have been many cases where your view applies. I just do not think so in this case.