6 ms·

Chinese clone of StackOverflow. Uses even the same design, built using django.

29 points by scorpion032 18y ago

scorpion032 18y ago
And yea, <a href="http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&u=http://www.cnprog.com/&ei=LCLPSeGrAsrqnQf7xsnXCQ&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3DCNProg.com%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dcom.ubuntu:en-US:unofficial%26hs%3Drgp http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&#38... is the translated version</a>
- vyrotek 18y ago
  COME CNProg first, right? Do not forget FAQ Oh!
- jwilliams 18y ago
  Someone asks about stack overflow here: http://66.102.11.132/translate_c?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&u=http://www.cnprog.com/questions/59/%25E8%25AF%25B7%25E9%2597%25AEcnprog%25E8%25B7%259Fstackoverflow%25E7%259A%2584%25E5%2585%25B3%25E7%25B3%25BB%25E6%2598%25AF%25E4%25BB%2580%25E4%25B9%2588%25EF%25BC%259F&prev=/search%3Fq%3DCNProg.com%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dcom.ubuntu:en-US:unofficial%26hs%3Drgp&usg=ALkJrhiLIrQ8JAa7Zr959gnp47O0AleSzw http://66.102.11.132/translate_c?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&u=ht...
sho 18y ago
Who cares? "Steal what you love", right? They obviously couldn't use the English speaking site, and I doubt the real Stack Overflow has any plans to expand into the Chinese market. I wouldn't be proud doing such a thing myself, but if such a site will help our Chinese friends learn to program better, good luck to it IMO.
- mustpax 18y ago
  That's a really good point about non-English content. Most popular community oriented sites out there, service one and only one language. As someone who grew up speaking Turkish, I can tell you that the quality of content in Turkish on the interwebs is quite sad compared to English. Most web sites service a global audience but there doesn't seem to be much i18n l18n going around. This creates a demand for stuff like this. There must be a way to service different languages better without having to clone websites though. Still, I wouldn't be that nonchalant about stealing work. It's one thing to be inspired by Stack Overflow and build something similar, a 1-1 copy is different.
  - jhancock 18y ago
    i18n is a technical issue. What matters most in this case is not that StackOverflow does not have a Mandarin interface, but rather, it does not have a Mandarin community.
    - mustpax 18y ago
      Well, which comes first, chicken or the egg? The language support or the community? Without the community there's no need to support the language. But without the language you cannot support the community. Part of the problem is that localization can be expensive (especially for non-Western languages) and there is no easy way for community driven sites to gauge potential returns of investing in a new language. But the fact that someone took the trouble of cloning the whole site probably indicates that there's interest out there.
- carbon8 18y ago
  The language argument is a red herring that appeals to an outdated, pre-communications revolution worldview and tries to ignore the central issue here. Language support has absolutely nothing to do with anything in this situation. If someone produces something based on a concept already in the wild, it's OK no matter what the language situation is. But if someone outright clones a site's design, it's a dirty move no matter what the language situation is. In its worst forms it's fraudulent and deceptive, in its most innocent form it's confusing to users.
  - jhancock 18y ago
    I do not think this new site is fraudulent or confusing to its users. I'm sure the vast majority of Chinese users will know this new site is a clone of StackOverflow. Here's your litmus test: If both sites exist and users in China overwhelmingly chose the new China based one, doesn't it prove that this new site is providing something that the original did not or could not provide?
    - carbon8 18y ago
      So if I clone your ShellShadow software, design everything to look as identical as possible and the market overwhelmingly chooses my clone, that's OK with you? Somehow I doubt it.
      - jhancock 18y ago
        Its not a matter of "that's ok with me". There are many variables to success. If someone else's "Collaborative Shell Client" takes off and mine doesn't, or takes off in a market I haven't or couldn't service well, and I was on the internet first, I need to review many other variables besides just product design.
        carbon8 18y ago
        If someone else's "Collaborative Shell Client" takes off and mine doesn't... There's a massive difference between a competitor and a clone.
sjs382 18y ago
I saw someone complaining about this the other day. Not sure if your intentions are the same... StackOverflow is CC-SA 2.5 licensed. The "derivative" site is also CC-SA 2.5 licensed. They both have clearly different audiences. I don't see a problem.
- sjs382 18y ago
  I should also note that I didn't notice any attribution on the site, as required by CC-SA 2.5. I don't speak the language though, so I can't be sure.
  - catz 18y ago
    In the right bottom corner there is a CC-wiki logo with link to creativecommons.org
    - sjs382 18y ago
      Which fulfills the "Share Alike" portion, but not the "Attribution" portion...
      - jhancock 18y ago
        http://code.google.com/p/cnprog/ http://code.google.com/p/cnprog/ shows attribution. Maybe the boys at StackOverflow will need to talk to the writer of this new project to firm up details on how and where he shows such attributions.
        sjs382 18y ago
        You think that's adequate? Personally I don't, but it's not an issue I care enough to argue. It was just an observation.
        jhancock 18y ago
        What I have seen so far: * 4 prominent attributions: SO attributions on his blog, the google code main page, CC license on the new production site, and in the code itself!!! * apache open source license Maybe he is not in full compliance yet, but this is one hell of a good start and demonstrates good faith.
barredo 18y ago
though I do not see any licenses problem with that CC-SA License in both StackOverflow and CNprog I do see an ethics problem in the CNProg staff using an exact copy. Isn't there ANY thing to improve in StackOverflow? It's a perfect design for everything? Couldn't the Chinese webmasters made a few changes they thought will improve the site? Even the colours? Even the size of the fonts? It's all China can do? Copy western things, making them cheaper due to their lower salaries compared with Western salaries? Because it's what it seems to be.
- sho 18y ago
  "I do see an ethics problem" An ethics problem with cloning a site and releasing it as open source? Under an Apache license no less? http://code.google.com/p/cnprog/source/browse/#svn/trunk http://code.google.com/p/cnprog/source/browse/#svn/trunk Not only do I not have an "ethics" problem with that, I think it's a good thing. "Isn't there ANY thing to improve in StackOverflow? " Well, they "improved" the logo! Seriously though, it's probably a single guy. He probably can't afford a designer, hell it's probably a hobby site. He probably, like me, absolutely loathes writing CSS and so just copied the whole thing. I don't see what the big deal is; you see things like blog themes cloned/ported all the time. And he did do a lot of work - he rewrote the whole thing in Django and released it open source! Isn't that something? Compared to the effort involved in writing the back end, the font sizes are not a big deal. "It's all China can do? Copy western things, making them cheaper due to their lower salaries compared with Western salaries?" Now this borders on offensive. China is not some giant hive mind, acting as a whole in pursuit of a grand shared vision. It's a nation of individuals just like the USA - if anything it's even more diverse. You don't even know if the owner of this site is in China. Regardless, shame on you for lumping "them" all together like that. Anyway, developing countries have a long and glorious tradition of shamelessly stealing the intellectual work of their more established contemporaries, including America, back in the day. 40 years ago it was Japan stealing from the USA. Now Americans copy their cultural styles all the time. And let's not forget where that grand American company, Disney, filched all its fairytale ideas from. What do you think the Germans thought when Disney copied practically every Grimm brothers story ever written, making billions, and now dares to protect and market its "trademarks"? Doesn't seem so bad when it's your side doing it, does it? But the german newspapers of the time said exactly what you just said about China - all the Amerikaner can do is copy and hide behind convenient legal fictions. Pull back and take the larger perspective. Stack Overflow is a good thing, right? Well, now it's open source, with a Chinese version online. It's still a good thing. And the Chinese programmer who takes your outsourced job will be that much more knowledgeable a programmer because of it ; ) (edited to emphasise & link to the open source code for the site)
sho 18y ago
I note that the "beta2" branch of this Open Source, Apache Licensed Project lists a "new theme" as a change. http://code.google.com/p/cnprog/source/list http://code.google.com/p/cnprog/source/list
jcapote 18y ago
Probably built in 1/4 the time...
- iamelgringo 18y ago
  For 1/10th the price.
  - Dilpil 18y ago
    With 1/1000th the security, stability, and maintainability.
    - deleted 18y ago
      [deleted]
    - neodude 18y ago
      and 100x the market?
      - beta 18y ago
        I doubt it.
  - jhancock 18y ago
    also with 1/1000th the ability to monetize (at the moment). In China you have to serve up loads more ads to get anywhere close to what the U.S. market pays. Its a necessary thing that it costs so much less to create a start-up like this in China. Because the returns are so much lower. In the long term, there is hope that size (of China) trumps this problem. But we haven't seen this happen yet.
chiffonade 18y ago
Sigh. The code is licensed to allow this. The mindless China bashing has even come to HN, I see.
deleted 18y ago
[deleted]
jhancock 18y ago
StackOverflow could never have served the China market like this project can. i18n is a technical issue. It cannot solve the issue of "community". There needed to be a Chinese StackOverflow (not a language-translated UI for the same site), and now there is. If your server isn't in China, it may as well not exist. You heard me right. If you want a regular user base interacting with your app in China, you must have a server in a data center in China. To run such a server in China, you must have an ICP (Internet Content Provider) license. These licenses can only be held by a Chinese national. If you are running a U.S. or EU based SaaS and do not understand this and do not partner with someone in China that can run your Chinese version of your service, you may eventually get copied. Its not about right or wrong. Its a matter of access for your users. There is nothing devious about this Chinese "StackOverflow". Its clearly a copy and the writers open sourced it. I have seen devious. This isn't it. Congrats again!!! This is a great step forward for the China programmer community. ...and congrats to StackOverflow for making something worth copying.
- patcito 18y ago
  So where is the source?
  - jhancock 18y ago
    http://code.google.com/p/cnprog/ http://code.google.com/p/cnprog/ the license is http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0 http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0
    - patcito 18y ago
      Thanks.
- cameldrv 18y ago
  Can you elaborate on this? Is the necessity of having a Chinese server a speed one, a domain one, or general cultural awareness from being in the country?
igorgue 18y ago
guys... if you were hackers... you'd be getting the source and studying it not complaining about the ethics or ability to monetize or how much time or money they spend on it.
lanceusa 18y ago
Here is the Chinese equivalent to Twitter: http://fanfou.com http://fanfou.com

29 points by scorpion032 18y ago

And yea, <a href="http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&u=http://www.cnprog.com/&ei=LCLPSeGrAsrqnQf7xsnXCQ&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3DCNProg.com%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dcom.ubuntu:en-US:unofficial%26hs%3Drgp http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&#38... is the translated version</a>

vyrotek 18y ago
COME CNProg first, right? Do not forget FAQ Oh!
jwilliams 18y ago
Someone asks about stack overflow here: http://66.102.11.132/translate_c?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&u=http://www.cnprog.com/questions/59/%25E8%25AF%25B7%25E9%2597%25AEcnprog%25E8%25B7%259Fstackoverflow%25E7%259A%2584%25E5%2585%25B3%25E7%25B3%25BB%25E6%2598%25AF%25E4%25BB%2580%25E4%25B9%2588%25EF%25BC%259F&prev=/search%3Fq%3DCNProg.com%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dcom.ubuntu:en-US:unofficial%26hs%3Drgp&usg=ALkJrhiLIrQ8JAa7Zr959gnp47O0AleSzw http://66.102.11.132/translate_c?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&u=ht...

sho 18y ago

Who cares? "Steal what you love", right? They obviously couldn't use the English speaking site, and I doubt the real Stack Overflow has any plans to expand into the Chinese market. I wouldn't be proud doing such a thing myself, but if such a site will help our Chinese friends learn to program better, good luck to it IMO.

mustpax 18y ago
That's a really good point about non-English content. Most popular community oriented sites out there, service one and only one language. As someone who grew up speaking Turkish, I can tell you that the quality of content in Turkish on the interwebs is quite sad compared to English. Most web sites service a global audience but there doesn't seem to be much i18n l18n going around. This creates a demand for stuff like this. There must be a way to service different languages better without having to clone websites though. Still, I wouldn't be that nonchalant about stealing work. It's one thing to be inspired by Stack Overflow and build something similar, a 1-1 copy is different.
- jhancock 18y ago
  i18n is a technical issue. What matters most in this case is not that StackOverflow does not have a Mandarin interface, but rather, it does not have a Mandarin community.
  - mustpax 18y ago
    Well, which comes first, chicken or the egg? The language support or the community? Without the community there's no need to support the language. But without the language you cannot support the community. Part of the problem is that localization can be expensive (especially for non-Western languages) and there is no easy way for community driven sites to gauge potential returns of investing in a new language. But the fact that someone took the trouble of cloning the whole site probably indicates that there's interest out there.
carbon8 18y ago
The language argument is a red herring that appeals to an outdated, pre-communications revolution worldview and tries to ignore the central issue here. Language support has absolutely nothing to do with anything in this situation. If someone produces something based on a concept already in the wild, it's OK no matter what the language situation is. But if someone outright clones a site's design, it's a dirty move no matter what the language situation is. In its worst forms it's fraudulent and deceptive, in its most innocent form it's confusing to users.
- jhancock 18y ago
  I do not think this new site is fraudulent or confusing to its users. I'm sure the vast majority of Chinese users will know this new site is a clone of StackOverflow. Here's your litmus test: If both sites exist and users in China overwhelmingly chose the new China based one, doesn't it prove that this new site is providing something that the original did not or could not provide?
  - carbon8 18y ago
    So if I clone your ShellShadow software, design everything to look as identical as possible and the market overwhelmingly chooses my clone, that's OK with you? Somehow I doubt it.
    - jhancock 18y ago
      Its not a matter of "that's ok with me". There are many variables to success. If someone else's "Collaborative Shell Client" takes off and mine doesn't, or takes off in a market I haven't or couldn't service well, and I was on the internet first, I need to review many other variables besides just product design.
      - carbon8 18y ago
        If someone else's "Collaborative Shell Client" takes off and mine doesn't... There's a massive difference between a competitor and a clone.

sjs382 18y ago

I saw someone complaining about this the other day. Not sure if your intentions are the same... StackOverflow is CC-SA 2.5 licensed. The "derivative" site is also CC-SA 2.5 licensed. They both have clearly different audiences. I don't see a problem.

sjs382 18y ago
I should also note that I didn't notice any attribution on the site, as required by CC-SA 2.5. I don't speak the language though, so I can't be sure.
- catz 18y ago
  In the right bottom corner there is a CC-wiki logo with link to creativecommons.org
  - sjs382 18y ago
    Which fulfills the "Share Alike" portion, but not the "Attribution" portion...
    - jhancock 18y ago
      http://code.google.com/p/cnprog/ http://code.google.com/p/cnprog/ shows attribution. Maybe the boys at StackOverflow will need to talk to the writer of this new project to firm up details on how and where he shows such attributions.
      - sjs382 18y ago
        You think that's adequate? Personally I don't, but it's not an issue I care enough to argue. It was just an observation.
        jhancock 18y ago
        What I have seen so far: * 4 prominent attributions: SO attributions on his blog, the google code main page, CC license on the new production site, and in the code itself!!! * apache open source license Maybe he is not in full compliance yet, but this is one hell of a good start and demonstrates good faith.

barredo 18y ago

though I do not see any licenses problem with that CC-SA License in both StackOverflow and CNprog I do see an ethics problem in the CNProg staff using an exact copy. Isn't there ANY thing to improve in StackOverflow? It's a perfect design for everything? Couldn't the Chinese webmasters made a few changes they thought will improve the site? Even the colours? Even the size of the fonts? It's all China can do? Copy western things, making them cheaper due to their lower salaries compared with Western salaries? Because it's what it seems to be.

sho 18y ago
"I do see an ethics problem" An ethics problem with cloning a site and releasing it as open source? Under an Apache license no less? http://code.google.com/p/cnprog/source/browse/#svn/trunk http://code.google.com/p/cnprog/source/browse/#svn/trunk Not only do I not have an "ethics" problem with that, I think it's a good thing. "Isn't there ANY thing to improve in StackOverflow? " Well, they "improved" the logo! Seriously though, it's probably a single guy. He probably can't afford a designer, hell it's probably a hobby site. He probably, like me, absolutely loathes writing CSS and so just copied the whole thing. I don't see what the big deal is; you see things like blog themes cloned/ported all the time. And he did do a lot of work - he rewrote the whole thing in Django and released it open source! Isn't that something? Compared to the effort involved in writing the back end, the font sizes are not a big deal. "It's all China can do? Copy western things, making them cheaper due to their lower salaries compared with Western salaries?" Now this borders on offensive. China is not some giant hive mind, acting as a whole in pursuit of a grand shared vision. It's a nation of individuals just like the USA - if anything it's even more diverse. You don't even know if the owner of this site is in China. Regardless, shame on you for lumping "them" all together like that. Anyway, developing countries have a long and glorious tradition of shamelessly stealing the intellectual work of their more established contemporaries, including America, back in the day. 40 years ago it was Japan stealing from the USA. Now Americans copy their cultural styles all the time. And let's not forget where that grand American company, Disney, filched all its fairytale ideas from. What do you think the Germans thought when Disney copied practically every Grimm brothers story ever written, making billions, and now dares to protect and market its "trademarks"? Doesn't seem so bad when it's your side doing it, does it? But the german newspapers of the time said exactly what you just said about China - all the Amerikaner can do is copy and hide behind convenient legal fictions. Pull back and take the larger perspective. Stack Overflow is a good thing, right? Well, now it's open source, with a Chinese version online. It's still a good thing. And the Chinese programmer who takes your outsourced job will be that much more knowledgeable a programmer because of it ; ) (edited to emphasise & link to the open source code for the site)

sho 18y ago

I note that the "beta2" branch of this Open Source, Apache Licensed Project lists a "new theme" as a change. http://code.google.com/p/cnprog/source/list http://code.google.com/p/cnprog/source/list

jcapote 18y ago

Probably built in 1/4 the time...

iamelgringo 18y ago
For 1/10th the price.
- Dilpil 18y ago
  With 1/1000th the security, stability, and maintainability.
  - deleted 18y ago
    [deleted]
  - neodude 18y ago
    and 100x the market?
    - beta 18y ago
      I doubt it.
- jhancock 18y ago
  also with 1/1000th the ability to monetize (at the moment). In China you have to serve up loads more ads to get anywhere close to what the U.S. market pays. Its a necessary thing that it costs so much less to create a start-up like this in China. Because the returns are so much lower. In the long term, there is hope that size (of China) trumps this problem. But we haven't seen this happen yet.

chiffonade 18y ago

Sigh. The code is licensed to allow this. The mindless China bashing has even come to HN, I see.

deleted 18y ago

[deleted]

jhancock 18y ago

StackOverflow could never have served the China market like this project can. i18n is a technical issue. It cannot solve the issue of "community". There needed to be a Chinese StackOverflow (not a language-translated UI for the same site), and now there is. If your server isn't in China, it may as well not exist. You heard me right. If you want a regular user base interacting with your app in China, you must have a server in a data center in China. To run such a server in China, you must have an ICP (Internet Content Provider) license. These licenses can only be held by a Chinese national. If you are running a U.S. or EU based SaaS and do not understand this and do not partner with someone in China that can run your Chinese version of your service, you may eventually get copied. Its not about right or wrong. Its a matter of access for your users. There is nothing devious about this Chinese "StackOverflow". Its clearly a copy and the writers open sourced it. I have seen devious. This isn't it. Congrats again!!! This is a great step forward for the China programmer community. ...and congrats to StackOverflow for making something worth copying.

patcito 18y ago
So where is the source?
- jhancock 18y ago
  http://code.google.com/p/cnprog/ http://code.google.com/p/cnprog/ the license is http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0 http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0
  - patcito 18y ago
    Thanks.
cameldrv 18y ago
Can you elaborate on this? Is the necessity of having a Chinese server a speed one, a domain one, or general cultural awareness from being in the country?

igorgue 18y ago

guys... if you were hackers... you'd be getting the source and studying it not complaining about the ethics or ability to monetize or how much time or money they spend on it.

lanceusa 18y ago

Here is the Chinese equivalent to Twitter: http://fanfou.com http://fanfou.com