4 ms·

Sounds kind of like what Microsoft said when they were first "integrating" IE into the system.

sp332 14y ago
Well, Netscape etc. cost money at the time MS included IE with Windows. They were using their market position in the desktop space to elbow into the browser space. That was a clear abuse of a monopoly. Mozilla doesn't have a monopoly, so they can't abuse it. And now, most of their competition is also free, so giving a browser away for free isn't anti-competitive. Besides, the OS is literally a browser. The only way to avoid having a default browser is to remove the little Firefox-branded app that opens a new gecko window. That doesn't seem to promote competition at all.
- Millennium 14y ago
  That smacks far too much of "it's not wrong when WE do it." Microsoft ruined this sort of integration for everybody.
  - sp332 14y ago
    Firefox isn't trying to compete with anyone though. They're not interested in blocking competition. In fact, they're trying to encourage web apps that run on every device over native apps that only run on one platform. If everyone switches to a more open system, the Mozilla team will be ecstatic.
    - anon1385 14y ago
      > In fact, they're trying to encourage web apps that run on every device over native apps that only run on one platform. Not quite. They are encouraging apps that are based on HTML and Javascript, but as far as I can tell Firefox OS includes plenty of APIs that are not available on other platforms, and there are no plans to bring them to other platforms [1]. Yes this isn't necessarily the fault of Mozilla, they can't force Google/Apple/Microsoft/Opera/Nokia etc to add features to their browsers [2], but that of course is one of the problems of using the 'open' web as a platform for everything. Either you remain standards compliant with very limited features dictated by the glacial/gridlocked standards process, or you extend the standards even without the support of the other big players, resulting in apps that only work on one OS (although are perhaps easier to port, depending on exactly what is missing). [1] https://wiki.mozilla.org/WebAPI https://wiki.mozilla.org/WebAPI I see plenty of grey "not currently planned for this platform" items in this list [2] other than to release their own browser on those platforms, which brings us full circle… the most important thing is open platforms where anybody can write and distribute native software targeting them
      - sp332 14y ago
        That list is only for various versions of Firefox, not other platforms. The vibration API, for example, is a W3C standard that is supported by Chrome for Android already. HTML media capture (using the camera from a webapp) is supported in Firefox, Chrome, and Opera.
      - jgon 14y ago
        You are so entirely wrong here that I have to guess you are either willfully trying to misrepresent things, or you have done so little research into this issue that your better sense should have told you to not comment. On the very page you are commenting on as "grey" they explicitly mention that each API will be submitted to the W3C for standardization once they reach a point where it is suitable (ie it has an implementation demonstrating it). Every single article I have seen about Firefox OS that includes comments from a dev has seen the dev explicitly call out that all the APIs they are creating will be submitted for standardization to allow the apps to run on any browser that supports these open standards. Please, please either stop misrepresenting the intent of the Firefox OS team, or if you are honestly in error, do more research before attempting to speak authoritatively.

sp332 14y ago

Well, Netscape etc. cost money at the time MS included IE with Windows. They were using their market position in the desktop space to elbow into the browser space. That was a clear abuse of a monopoly. Mozilla doesn't have a monopoly, so they can't abuse it. And now, most of their competition is also free, so giving a browser away for free isn't anti-competitive. Besides, the OS is literally a browser. The only way to avoid having a default browser is to remove the little Firefox-branded app that opens a new gecko window. That doesn't seem to promote competition at all.

Millennium 14y ago
That smacks far too much of "it's not wrong when WE do it." Microsoft ruined this sort of integration for everybody.
- sp332 14y ago
  Firefox isn't trying to compete with anyone though. They're not interested in blocking competition. In fact, they're trying to encourage web apps that run on every device over native apps that only run on one platform. If everyone switches to a more open system, the Mozilla team will be ecstatic.
  - anon1385 14y ago
    > In fact, they're trying to encourage web apps that run on every device over native apps that only run on one platform. Not quite. They are encouraging apps that are based on HTML and Javascript, but as far as I can tell Firefox OS includes plenty of APIs that are not available on other platforms, and there are no plans to bring them to other platforms [1]. Yes this isn't necessarily the fault of Mozilla, they can't force Google/Apple/Microsoft/Opera/Nokia etc to add features to their browsers [2], but that of course is one of the problems of using the 'open' web as a platform for everything. Either you remain standards compliant with very limited features dictated by the glacial/gridlocked standards process, or you extend the standards even without the support of the other big players, resulting in apps that only work on one OS (although are perhaps easier to port, depending on exactly what is missing). [1] https://wiki.mozilla.org/WebAPI https://wiki.mozilla.org/WebAPI I see plenty of grey "not currently planned for this platform" items in this list [2] other than to release their own browser on those platforms, which brings us full circle… the most important thing is open platforms where anybody can write and distribute native software targeting them
    - sp332 14y ago
      That list is only for various versions of Firefox, not other platforms. The vibration API, for example, is a W3C standard that is supported by Chrome for Android already. HTML media capture (using the camera from a webapp) is supported in Firefox, Chrome, and Opera.
    - jgon 14y ago
      You are so entirely wrong here that I have to guess you are either willfully trying to misrepresent things, or you have done so little research into this issue that your better sense should have told you to not comment. On the very page you are commenting on as "grey" they explicitly mention that each API will be submitted to the W3C for standardization once they reach a point where it is suitable (ie it has an implementation demonstrating it). Every single article I have seen about Firefox OS that includes comments from a dev has seen the dev explicitly call out that all the APIs they are creating will be submitted for standardization to allow the apps to run on any browser that supports these open standards. Please, please either stop misrepresenting the intent of the Firefox OS team, or if you are honestly in error, do more research before attempting to speak authoritatively.