4 ms·

Can one seriously argue that the many animals who gorge themselves in preparation for hibernation or cache food for later are not actively planning ahead? Nean

Can one seriously argue that the many animals who gorge themselves in preparation for hibernation or cache food for later are not actively planning ahead? Neanderthals had ritual burial.

sliverstorm 14y ago
Yes, one could argue that on grounds that the animal is not actually planning for the future, but rather acting on instinct that happens to prepare it for the future.
- yogar 14y ago
  At this point we are already making assumptions about the validity of distinction between conscious action and instinct. Is conscious action an instinct? Where do we cross that line? I am afraid the definition is recursive. Thus we are ascertaining the consciousness of the action by assuming/accepting/defining the consciousness of the actor based on the lack of instinctive behavior!
  - sliverstorm 14y ago
    I don't know about you, but I can clearly distinguish between conscious decisions and instinct. You can argue about how all decisions are just chemistryy anywa, blah blah, but my decisions and my instincts clearly don't come from the same place.
    - yogar 14y ago
      Your distinction between conscious and instinctive is already based on the assumption of a definition for consciousness. What place does each one come from?
  - Evbn 14y ago
    If every member of a species behaves the same way (eating a lot and falling asleep), it is instinct. If we see diversity and individual creativity (ordering midwinter delivery, building a freezer, barricading the door, planting a garden), it is planning ahead, on top of a simpler instinct.
    - yogar 14y ago
      Challenging reply. Are we all then using freezers from instinct? We have not all created it but I would say we "consciously" decided to buy one. Do common behaviors become instinct? What is the difference between instinct and social norms? Also diversity may exist within the same class of instinctive expression (e.g. fear could mean running away or freezing.)
      - Shorel 14y ago
        >What is the difference between instinct and social norms? Millions of years of natural selection. Social norms are ephemeral, while instinct is backed up by genetic support. However, lots of stuff in our lives are a mix of both, so the answer is: let's study feral children!
anw 14y ago
Very keen. At what point do we cease to call it "instinct" and begin to call it "preparation"? Such preparation for the future may be innate in us to survive future events. It is just that we have a higher level of comprehension on what we want (and how to do it). It is not as black and white as it may seem. In any case, this article was quite interesting. It is funny that people seem to think neanderthals were stupid, when in fact they were quite a progression from those before.

Can one seriously argue that the many animals who gorge themselves in preparation for hibernation or cache food for later are not actively planning ahead? Neanderthals had ritual burial.

sliverstorm 14y ago

Yes, one could argue that on grounds that the animal is not actually planning for the future, but rather acting on instinct that happens to prepare it for the future.

yogar 14y ago
At this point we are already making assumptions about the validity of distinction between conscious action and instinct. Is conscious action an instinct? Where do we cross that line? I am afraid the definition is recursive. Thus we are ascertaining the consciousness of the action by assuming/accepting/defining the consciousness of the actor based on the lack of instinctive behavior!
- sliverstorm 14y ago
  I don't know about you, but I can clearly distinguish between conscious decisions and instinct. You can argue about how all decisions are just chemistryy anywa, blah blah, but my decisions and my instincts clearly don't come from the same place.
  - yogar 14y ago
    Your distinction between conscious and instinctive is already based on the assumption of a definition for consciousness. What place does each one come from?
- Evbn 14y ago
  If every member of a species behaves the same way (eating a lot and falling asleep), it is instinct. If we see diversity and individual creativity (ordering midwinter delivery, building a freezer, barricading the door, planting a garden), it is planning ahead, on top of a simpler instinct.
  - yogar 14y ago
    Challenging reply. Are we all then using freezers from instinct? We have not all created it but I would say we "consciously" decided to buy one. Do common behaviors become instinct? What is the difference between instinct and social norms? Also diversity may exist within the same class of instinctive expression (e.g. fear could mean running away or freezing.)
    - Shorel 14y ago
      >What is the difference between instinct and social norms? Millions of years of natural selection. Social norms are ephemeral, while instinct is backed up by genetic support. However, lots of stuff in our lives are a mix of both, so the answer is: let's study feral children!

anw 14y ago

Very keen. At what point do we cease to call it "instinct" and begin to call it "preparation"? Such preparation for the future may be innate in us to survive future events. It is just that we have a higher level of comprehension on what we want (and how to do it). It is not as black and white as it may seem. In any case, this article was quite interesting. It is funny that people seem to think neanderthals were stupid, when in fact they were quite a progression from those before.