6 ms·

Bak may be a computing genius, but he didn’t touch a computer until he was at university. Wow. I wonder how many 10x programmers got their start in college.

fleaflicker 18y ago
Would be an interesting poll for HN. I'm in that same boat, I bet a lot of the readers here are too.
- erlanger 18y ago
  I learned while in college, but not from it. I needed money, so I freelanced as a web developer. I've still never been in a CompSci course, but they sound stuffy.
- christofd 18y ago
  Yeah, computers in high school were only for nerds. Nobody wants to hang with the calculator crowd. Later on that changed.
- biohacker42 18y ago
  Same here, had an Amiga before college, but only started programming in college.
frisco 18y ago
David Heinemeier Hansson has said the same thing, and talked about how it never interfered with his ability to do things like Rails.
- jonknee 18y ago
  Is he a genius programmer or marketer?
  - larrykubin 18y ago
    I'd say both.
    - ankhmoop 18y ago
      I haven't seen any evidence that DHH is a genius programmer, especially when his work is compared to that of someone like Lars Bak. Do you have a particular work of DHH's in mind as demonstrative of truly exceptional intellect and programming ability? I reviewed Rail's ORM implementation extensively when researching the field, and I found DHH's implementation to be remarkably naive, with most advances provided by third party developers, and absolutely no demonstrative knowledge (theoretical or otherwise) of the underlying relational algebra, security concerns, etc. A very simple example of implementation naivety: As of 2004, ActiveRecord implementation failed to even use parametrized SQL statements and was open to a variety of SQL injection attacks: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.ruby.rails/623 http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.ruby.rails/623 http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.ruby.rails/749 http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.ruby.rails/749 In my reviews of DHH's work, I've not found code that I would consider 'genius', but note that this is not an argument that his work is without value.
      - hello_moto 18y ago
        He simplifies web-development. Can you say the same thing in regards to the developers that work for the following companies? SUN (Java), Microsoft (ASP/ASP.NET), Macromedia (ColdFusion). (and don't forget developers who use PHP, Perl and Python). Yes, he's sloppy/have no knowledge in certain areas... and I assume that's where people like you, ankhmoop, come into play and contribute. Just like Lars Bak with his soldiers.
        ankhmoop 18y ago
        You don't need to be a genius to produce value. In my early 20s, I wrote a piece of widely popular software that's still in very active use today. I didn't solve the problem well, and I wouldn't call the implementation genius by any stretch of the imagination, but I made something useful and quite a few people use it every day -- probably more than use Rails, but I must admit I'm guessing. For all the value I've produced, I'm still embarrassed by the software, and all the more so when I see other developers emulating my design and approaches that I've since learned to be sub-optimal. The work wasn't genius, but yes, it simplified something important. The lesson I take away is this: value doesn't require genius, and it's foolish to conflate the two. I try to appreciate the value produced by others without making assumptions regarding their genius.

fleaflicker 18y ago

Would be an interesting poll for HN. I'm in that same boat, I bet a lot of the readers here are too.

erlanger 18y ago
I learned while in college, but not from it. I needed money, so I freelanced as a web developer. I've still never been in a CompSci course, but they sound stuffy.
christofd 18y ago
Yeah, computers in high school were only for nerds. Nobody wants to hang with the calculator crowd. Later on that changed.
biohacker42 18y ago
Same here, had an Amiga before college, but only started programming in college.

frisco 18y ago

David Heinemeier Hansson has said the same thing, and talked about how it never interfered with his ability to do things like Rails.

jonknee 18y ago
Is he a genius programmer or marketer?
- larrykubin 18y ago
  I'd say both.
  - ankhmoop 18y ago
    I haven't seen any evidence that DHH is a genius programmer, especially when his work is compared to that of someone like Lars Bak. Do you have a particular work of DHH's in mind as demonstrative of truly exceptional intellect and programming ability? I reviewed Rail's ORM implementation extensively when researching the field, and I found DHH's implementation to be remarkably naive, with most advances provided by third party developers, and absolutely no demonstrative knowledge (theoretical or otherwise) of the underlying relational algebra, security concerns, etc. A very simple example of implementation naivety: As of 2004, ActiveRecord implementation failed to even use parametrized SQL statements and was open to a variety of SQL injection attacks: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.ruby.rails/623 http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.ruby.rails/623 http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.ruby.rails/749 http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.ruby.rails/749 In my reviews of DHH's work, I've not found code that I would consider 'genius', but note that this is not an argument that his work is without value.
    - hello_moto 18y ago
      He simplifies web-development. Can you say the same thing in regards to the developers that work for the following companies? SUN (Java), Microsoft (ASP/ASP.NET), Macromedia (ColdFusion). (and don't forget developers who use PHP, Perl and Python). Yes, he's sloppy/have no knowledge in certain areas... and I assume that's where people like you, ankhmoop, come into play and contribute. Just like Lars Bak with his soldiers.
      - ankhmoop 18y ago
        You don't need to be a genius to produce value. In my early 20s, I wrote a piece of widely popular software that's still in very active use today. I didn't solve the problem well, and I wouldn't call the implementation genius by any stretch of the imagination, but I made something useful and quite a few people use it every day -- probably more than use Rails, but I must admit I'm guessing. For all the value I've produced, I'm still embarrassed by the software, and all the more so when I see other developers emulating my design and approaches that I've since learned to be sub-optimal. The work wasn't genius, but yes, it simplified something important. The lesson I take away is this: value doesn't require genius, and it's foolish to conflate the two. I try to appreciate the value produced by others without making assumptions regarding their genius.