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I also started with Ruby (well, after a number of other languages) and used Clojure for a time, and I just can't sympathize with this: "And—if you like avoidin

by bascule 14y ago

I also started with Ruby (well, after a number of other languages) and used Clojure for a time, and I just can't sympathize with this: "And—if you like avoiding unnecessary frustration and boilerplate—it will make you happy." Didn't get this feeling. I like avoiding unnecessary frustration and boilerplate! A great way to avoid boilerplate is to hide it behind macros, however that's not necessarily a great way to avoid frustration. Know what's really awesome? When a macro injects a recur point, and suddenly you're not recuring to where you think you are, you're recuring to a point within the macro somewhere. The only way to figure this out is to go dig through the source of the macro. Sorry Clojure fans, what can I say? This did not make me happy. I am told that if Clojure did not make me happy, that's my fault, because I didn't study Clojure hard enough or something to get to the point where I should feel the Zen of Lisp flowing through my brain. Clearly this must be the blub paradox at work. Maybe it's my fault, or maybe Clojure isn't the greatest language in the world for everyone.

tensor 14y ago
There is no language that is "the greatest language in the world for everyone." It's unfortunate that you found a point of frustration with clojure (or with one of it's 3rd party libraries?), though a single anecdote about a single problem you encountered shouldn't turn you or anyone else off a language. As for macros, they should be used with care for many reasons, this being a good example. Similarly for ruby, monkey patching should be use with great care as it can introduce more problems than a surprise recur point.
weavejester 14y ago
Macros have a great deal of power, which is why they should almost never be used. A macro injecting a recur point sounds just a little bit insane. I can't think of a reason why you'd ever do that.

by bascule 14y ago

tensor 14y ago

There is no language that is "the greatest language in the world for everyone." It's unfortunate that you found a point of frustration with clojure (or with one of it's 3rd party libraries?), though a single anecdote about a single problem you encountered shouldn't turn you or anyone else off a language. As for macros, they should be used with care for many reasons, this being a good example. Similarly for ruby, monkey patching should be use with great care as it can introduce more problems than a surprise recur point.

weavejester 14y ago

Macros have a great deal of power, which is why they should almost never be used. A macro injecting a recur point sounds just a little bit insane. I can't think of a reason why you'd ever do that.