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> XCode is garbage Once in a while I see an argument like this and I wonder - does this guy really do mobile development? For the better part of last year I w

by M4v3R 14y ago

> XCode is garbage Once in a while I see an argument like this and I wonder - does this guy really do mobile development? For the better part of last year I was into Android development, in Eclipse. If XCode is garbage, I don't know what Eclipse is. Resource-hogging, buggy monster with seven heads with shit on them, probably. I could list annoyances of Eclipse that got me for hours. On the other hand, in last month I jumped in to iOS development. And XCode was a breeze. Sure, it has its own gotchas, but many of them either have fixes or workarounds, and the start/build speed is just fantastic, compared to slow Eclipse and Android emulator.

parfe 14y ago
>does this guy really do mobile development? Nope. Like my comment said: "Targeting the Mac"
- _Simon 14y ago
  So why do you feel qualified to comment?
  - parfe 14y ago
    I can't tell if you're joking? XCode is not exclusive to mobile development. File -> New -> Project See all that fun stuff under listed under OS X?
    - _Simon 14y ago
      Wow. I may have misread your initial diatribe, but the inference was that you don't use it often. But hey, being rude is the best way to correct me.
      - pc86 14y ago
        > So why do you feel qualified to comment? How dare you try to call someone out for being rude when your first comment to them was that.
        _Simon 14y ago
        How dare I? Who are you!? My question was a legitimate one, I was being serious, not fucking fatuous like the OP. As I explained, the post came across to me as if the OP didn't have much day to day experience using Xcode, hence the question. The OP initial comment was aggressive to begin with! How dare I? Wow.
        pc86 14y ago
        I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that because you're new here[0], you haven't read the comment guidelines. I suggest you do, and modify your behavior accordingly. Be civil. Don't say things you wouldn't say in a face to face conversation.[1] [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=_Simon https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=_Simon [1] http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        _Simon 14y ago
        Get over yourself. 1) I have been reading this site for a while, certainly since 2010 and have read the guidelines. Since your account is only 150 days older than mine, it hardly puts you in a position to lord it over me. 2) I absolutely would say everything that I have said to your faces. 3) I haven't been uncivil, my 'crime' is at worst misreading a post, however I don't think I did. Rereading the OP, he was looking to troll and I fed him. My bad, I will be more diligent in the future. You, on the other hand attacked me. Would you be so damned patronising to my face? Reading your history (how utterly childish) it looks like you are generally a bit of a patronising know it all. I won't respond further. Just waiting in anticipation for you to attack my spelling, grammar or punctuation, which seems to be the modus operandi of a HN troll.
        scholia 14y ago
        Amused to see you going through the same process with other people as you did with me: ie you post silly statements in sloppy language, act all hurt when people point out your mistakes, and finally accuse them of being trolls (using yet another word you don't understand). I really don't think you are properly equipped to debate things on HN. You should go back to Digg. It's your natural home.
zanny 14y ago
qt 5.1 comes out this month, you can write qml interfaces targeting both ios and Android, and qt creator isn't garbage!
- veeti 14y ago
  No, please don't. Android app design is already a gigantic clusterfuck where half of the apps still look like they're stuck in 1995 and using a non-native UI toolkit isn't going to help. And this is coming from a huge fan of Qt and a KDE user.
TheAnimus 14y ago
IDEs are an odd thing thou, some people can't stand my favourite VS1012+R#. I sort of understand why, I am willing to pay the price for the 2GB of RAM it just swallows, I have an SSD so it isn't dog slow to load. Which is why whenever I see the XCode vs Eclipse talk I'm left with the gut wrenching feeling of hating them both.
Taylorious 14y ago
Well there's your problem. Use Intellij IDEA. It makes every other IDE you may have used look like garbage. Also, the ADT bundle that Google now has works way better than downloading Eclipse and installing the plugin. Although, I agree with you, I think Xcode works quite well. But, there are improvements that could be made...
- M4v3R 14y ago
  As a matter of fact I tried IntelliJ. It was nice, but it had it's own set of problems. Two of them: - compilation times of bigger Android projects sucks hard. It's just not fast enough. I even feel that using word fast in this sentence is a misuse. - one of the selling points of the IDE (from their website) is Jabber integration for team coding. Tried for several hours, didn't get it to work. Even filed a ticked for it, which is still unsolved (the package is unmantained for years).
pkulak 14y ago
Intellij is better than Eclipse and XCode.
DonnyV 14y ago
You should try another IDE. Eclipse isn't maintained by Google. Xamarin Studio is very nice. http://xamarin.com/studio http://xamarin.com/studio
- naner 14y ago
  Xamarin Studio isn't maintained by Google either... Also it'd be nice if the IDE supported the platform languages (Java and ObjC).
gnufied 14y ago
IntelliJ Idea is vastly superior and when developing on Android it is very easy to use Idea as first class IDE. Compare this with iOS development. IntelliJ's AppCoder is nice, but because quite a lot of things can be only done from XCode, Appcoder is second class citizen. Let me re-iterate, if you haven't used Appcoder, it is a vastly superior IDE compared to Xcode any given day.
mikeash 14y ago
I do a lot of iOS development in Xcode, and a lot of Android development in IntelliJ. The IDE experience is vastly better in IntelliJ. Xcode is garbage. Maybe Eclipse is worse, I don't know, it's been a long time since I used it, but that's irrelevant. That something is even more garbage doesn't somehow make Xcode better. The only thing I really miss about iOS development when doing Android work is not having blocks in Java, and it's still generally Good Enough if I squint and pretend that anonymous inner classes are equivalent. (IntelliJ helps to reinforce this illusion with automatic folding, too.) The iOS simulator is a bit better, but I don't generally find myself really missing it, especially since developing on a real device is much better in Android land. Xcode is way behind the times in terms of automated assistance while coding. Every time I have to stop in the middle of writing some code to go up and add an #import that the IDE could easily add itself, I hate Xcode a little more. And that's really the tip of the iceberg. I'm really hoping that AppCode 2.0 can give me the IntelliJ experience for iOS coding, because Xcode 4 has been a disaster from day one and is not getting better fast enough. Your opinion may differ, but please don't act like disagreement can only be due to ignorance.
- hboon 14y ago
  I've been meaning to ask for a long time. Are you this http://www.mikeash.com http://www.mikeash.com Mike Ash?
  - mikeash 14y ago
    The very same. I hesitate to ask, but, is that good or bad? :)
    - hboon 14y ago
      Good, but to be fair to every other Mike Ashes, they aren't bad either. I just never know of them :) Thank you for the time and effort put into NSBlog. It's awesome. Had no idea you write for Android now. Will there ever be an NSBlog equivalent for Android?
      - 14y ago
Semaphor 14y ago
Never worked with XCode, but I can't understand why anyone would like Eclipse. It might be powerful but it's also buggy, slow and complicated. Besides that I'll just repeat what was that here and what's said in pretty much every discussion mentioning Eclipse: IntelliJ Idea.
runjake 14y ago
and I wonder - does this guy really do mobile development? ... in last month I jumped in to iOS development. And XCode was a breeze Something's off here. You're questioning veteran iOS developers' abilities after having started iOS development a month ago? I used to do iOS development and still keep in touch with several iOS developers of apps everyone has on their devices. The best I can get out of any of them is "XCode is okay", but more often than not, there's expletives and scathing remarks, especially since XCode 4, when they "iTunesified" the interface. You just started iOS development, which means you're still getting the hang of things and the workflows. Give it a little time before you call people out. That said, I can't say that Android development is much better, although I've just gone through the tutorials on developer.android.com for the heck of it.
hboon 14y ago
The work put into LLVM and Clang is great. But Xcode (the UI frontend) is really one of the worst Apple product.

by M4v3R 14y ago

parfe 14y ago

>does this guy really do mobile development? Nope. Like my comment said: "Targeting the Mac"

_Simon 14y ago
So why do you feel qualified to comment?
- parfe 14y ago
  I can't tell if you're joking? XCode is not exclusive to mobile development. File -> New -> Project See all that fun stuff under listed under OS X?
  - _Simon 14y ago
    Wow. I may have misread your initial diatribe, but the inference was that you don't use it often. But hey, being rude is the best way to correct me.
    - pc86 14y ago
      > So why do you feel qualified to comment? How dare you try to call someone out for being rude when your first comment to them was that.
      - _Simon 14y ago
        How dare I? Who are you!? My question was a legitimate one, I was being serious, not fucking fatuous like the OP. As I explained, the post came across to me as if the OP didn't have much day to day experience using Xcode, hence the question. The OP initial comment was aggressive to begin with! How dare I? Wow.
        pc86 14y ago
        I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that because you're new here[0], you haven't read the comment guidelines. I suggest you do, and modify your behavior accordingly. Be civil. Don't say things you wouldn't say in a face to face conversation.[1] [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=_Simon https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=_Simon [1] http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        _Simon 14y ago
        Get over yourself. 1) I have been reading this site for a while, certainly since 2010 and have read the guidelines. Since your account is only 150 days older than mine, it hardly puts you in a position to lord it over me. 2) I absolutely would say everything that I have said to your faces. 3) I haven't been uncivil, my 'crime' is at worst misreading a post, however I don't think I did. Rereading the OP, he was looking to troll and I fed him. My bad, I will be more diligent in the future. You, on the other hand attacked me. Would you be so damned patronising to my face? Reading your history (how utterly childish) it looks like you are generally a bit of a patronising know it all. I won't respond further. Just waiting in anticipation for you to attack my spelling, grammar or punctuation, which seems to be the modus operandi of a HN troll.
        scholia 14y ago
        Amused to see you going through the same process with other people as you did with me: ie you post silly statements in sloppy language, act all hurt when people point out your mistakes, and finally accuse them of being trolls (using yet another word you don't understand). I really don't think you are properly equipped to debate things on HN. You should go back to Digg. It's your natural home.

zanny 14y ago

qt 5.1 comes out this month, you can write qml interfaces targeting both ios and Android, and qt creator isn't garbage!

veeti 14y ago
No, please don't. Android app design is already a gigantic clusterfuck where half of the apps still look like they're stuck in 1995 and using a non-native UI toolkit isn't going to help. And this is coming from a huge fan of Qt and a KDE user.

TheAnimus 14y ago

IDEs are an odd thing thou, some people can't stand my favourite VS1012+R#. I sort of understand why, I am willing to pay the price for the 2GB of RAM it just swallows, I have an SSD so it isn't dog slow to load. Which is why whenever I see the XCode vs Eclipse talk I'm left with the gut wrenching feeling of hating them both.

Taylorious 14y ago

Well there's your problem. Use Intellij IDEA. It makes every other IDE you may have used look like garbage. Also, the ADT bundle that Google now has works way better than downloading Eclipse and installing the plugin. Although, I agree with you, I think Xcode works quite well. But, there are improvements that could be made...

M4v3R 14y ago
As a matter of fact I tried IntelliJ. It was nice, but it had it's own set of problems. Two of them: - compilation times of bigger Android projects sucks hard. It's just not fast enough. I even feel that using word fast in this sentence is a misuse. - one of the selling points of the IDE (from their website) is Jabber integration for team coding. Tried for several hours, didn't get it to work. Even filed a ticked for it, which is still unsolved (the package is unmantained for years).

pkulak 14y ago

Intellij is better than Eclipse and XCode.

DonnyV 14y ago

You should try another IDE. Eclipse isn't maintained by Google. Xamarin Studio is very nice. http://xamarin.com/studio http://xamarin.com/studio

naner 14y ago
Xamarin Studio isn't maintained by Google either... Also it'd be nice if the IDE supported the platform languages (Java and ObjC).

gnufied 14y ago

IntelliJ Idea is vastly superior and when developing on Android it is very easy to use Idea as first class IDE. Compare this with iOS development. IntelliJ's AppCoder is nice, but because quite a lot of things can be only done from XCode, Appcoder is second class citizen. Let me re-iterate, if you haven't used Appcoder, it is a vastly superior IDE compared to Xcode any given day.

mikeash 14y ago

I do a lot of iOS development in Xcode, and a lot of Android development in IntelliJ. The IDE experience is vastly better in IntelliJ. Xcode is garbage. Maybe Eclipse is worse, I don't know, it's been a long time since I used it, but that's irrelevant. That something is even more garbage doesn't somehow make Xcode better. The only thing I really miss about iOS development when doing Android work is not having blocks in Java, and it's still generally Good Enough if I squint and pretend that anonymous inner classes are equivalent. (IntelliJ helps to reinforce this illusion with automatic folding, too.) The iOS simulator is a bit better, but I don't generally find myself really missing it, especially since developing on a real device is much better in Android land. Xcode is way behind the times in terms of automated assistance while coding. Every time I have to stop in the middle of writing some code to go up and add an #import that the IDE could easily add itself, I hate Xcode a little more. And that's really the tip of the iceberg. I'm really hoping that AppCode 2.0 can give me the IntelliJ experience for iOS coding, because Xcode 4 has been a disaster from day one and is not getting better fast enough. Your opinion may differ, but please don't act like disagreement can only be due to ignorance.

hboon 14y ago
I've been meaning to ask for a long time. Are you this http://www.mikeash.com http://www.mikeash.com Mike Ash?
- mikeash 14y ago
  The very same. I hesitate to ask, but, is that good or bad? :)
  - hboon 14y ago
    Good, but to be fair to every other Mike Ashes, they aren't bad either. I just never know of them :) Thank you for the time and effort put into NSBlog. It's awesome. Had no idea you write for Android now. Will there ever be an NSBlog equivalent for Android?
    - 14y ago

Semaphor 14y ago

Never worked with XCode, but I can't understand why anyone would like Eclipse. It might be powerful but it's also buggy, slow and complicated. Besides that I'll just repeat what was that here and what's said in pretty much every discussion mentioning Eclipse: IntelliJ Idea.

runjake 14y ago

and I wonder - does this guy really do mobile development? ... in last month I jumped in to iOS development. And XCode was a breeze Something's off here. You're questioning veteran iOS developers' abilities after having started iOS development a month ago? I used to do iOS development and still keep in touch with several iOS developers of apps everyone has on their devices. The best I can get out of any of them is "XCode is okay", but more often than not, there's expletives and scathing remarks, especially since XCode 4, when they "iTunesified" the interface. You just started iOS development, which means you're still getting the hang of things and the workflows. Give it a little time before you call people out. That said, I can't say that Android development is much better, although I've just gone through the tutorials on developer.android.com for the heck of it.

hboon 14y ago

The work put into LLVM and Clang is great. But Xcode (the UI frontend) is really one of the worst Apple product.