3 ms·

Seriously? Compiling? What language are they using that requires actual, regular, compile processes?

blasdel 18y ago
Their bullshit private VB dialect that was someone's weekend project: Wasabi http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2006/09/01b.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2006/09/01b.html
- jcdreads 18y ago
  Are you angry that they used/wrote something called wasabi? Joel force you to read stuff that makes you mad? I mean, seriously, what's with all the random ire in the HN comments on this story?
  - blasdel 18y ago
    1. Joel is trolling us, and we love it. 2. He is describing a stupid decision he made, which is framed around an unacknowledged stupid decision he made years ago (see 3). 3. His company uses a private language they wrote themselves, for totally ridiculous reasons, despite having written essays about how "you shouldn't let your programmers use any non-mainstream languages".
    - wglb 18y ago
      When I first read about Wasabi, I kind of wondered. But then in a previous lifetime, I was with a company that wrote its own compiler. A few years after that, the CEO said "thank god for that compiler" as it relieved pressure on a target chip decision. Similarly, Wasabi has targeted a completely different end architecture with apparently little fuss. This is not a trivial result.
  - jrockway 18y ago
    I think people are upset that Joel markets it as a good idea when, in fact, it is probably not that good of an idea. (Yes, he gets that 1% of the market that can't run whatever language they pick, but he has to maintain his own in-house programing language and toolchain, and train new developers to use a language that exists nowhere else in the world.)
- gstar 18y ago
  This is just tall poppy syndrome. Joel runs his successful business, bothers to blog about it since he founded it years ago, graciously comes on here and responds to people - nice of him, huh? So why so bitchy? You clearly disagree with his company's engineering decisions that you can't possibly have been privy to the reasoning behind. What's your motivation?
  - blasdel 18y ago
    First of all, his business is so successful because he blogs about it, and establishes himself as a pundit. It isn't a 'bother', it's one of his primary responsibilities as the CEO. Why so bitchy? What's my motivation? -- this whole thing is call and response, we're just filling roles. Spolsky's slipped into punditry, you're the sycophant, and I'm the prick popping your balloons. Joel certainly wrote his post knowing that he was teasing for a "WTF Wasabi" response -- why don't you see that as valid? Any community where the only valid 'response' is fawning fanboy is not one I want to participate in, and I think spolsky would say the same. There's a reason he doesn't just post in his own forums. I disagree with his company's engineering decision based on the reasoning he's publicly given for it (which happens to also run counter to his past advice). He hasn't said anything about it for a while, though he dropped a promising tidbit in this thread: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=536023 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=536023
    - gstar 18y ago
      Instead of addressing my questions, you went with the ad hominem and called me a sycophant. Nice one. Love your generalisation about blogging and (alleged) punditry being a primary responsibility too - because clearly SO many CEOs take this responsibility in their stride.
      - blasdel 18y ago
        I wasn't talking about "many CEOs", just Joel. If you bother to read his blog posts, you'd notice that he constantly talks about how he's delegated away a lot of decision-making responsibility. He functions as the public face of his company. His companies' products are marketed towards developers, and I gather that most find out about them because of Spolsky's blogging -- he's a very effective salesman.
smanek 18y ago
What's wrong with that? All else being equal, compiling will generally be faster. Most languages (Python, Java, Ruby, most Common Lisps, etc) do compile - just (usually) to some intermediate and portable bytecode rather than raw machine code. That's probably what their compiler (Wasabi) does too (except, it seems like they are using PHP/VBScript/JS as their bytecode ;-)).
- spolsky 18y ago
  In FogBugz 6 the compiler output was PHP and VBScript. In FogBugz 7 the compiler output is .NET/CLR bytecodes. It also emits compressed JavaScript which runs on the browser.
  - blasdel 18y ago
    You should write a new article about Wasabi as it is now, so we can stop making fun of you for it.
  - smanek 18y ago
    Sounds good. But, there is nothing wrong with using some other language as your intermediate 'bytecode.' If memory serves, early versions of C++ compiled to C, Arc (basically) compiles to Scheme, Python can compile to C, and many others. Either way is good in my mind. But, I too, would appreciate some technical details about Wasabi (just out of academic curiosity). I feel like a lot of things I know about it are now outdated.
- mynameishere 18y ago
  I hate explaining myself, especially when it shouldn't be necessary. Yes, I know Java et al compiles to bytecode. But in practice you never hit a "compile" button because it compiles continuously.
  - silentOpen 18y ago
    Java still has javac. I suppose an IDE could hide this from you. Of course, Java also has lots of static analysis tools written for it so many errors are caught way before compilation.

Their bullshit private VB dialect that was someone's weekend project: Wasabi http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2006/09/01b.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2006/09/01b.html

jcdreads 18y ago
Are you angry that they used/wrote something called wasabi? Joel force you to read stuff that makes you mad? I mean, seriously, what's with all the random ire in the HN comments on this story?
- blasdel 18y ago
  1. Joel is trolling us, and we love it. 2. He is describing a stupid decision he made, which is framed around an unacknowledged stupid decision he made years ago (see 3). 3. His company uses a private language they wrote themselves, for totally ridiculous reasons, despite having written essays about how "you shouldn't let your programmers use any non-mainstream languages".
  - wglb 18y ago
    When I first read about Wasabi, I kind of wondered. But then in a previous lifetime, I was with a company that wrote its own compiler. A few years after that, the CEO said "thank god for that compiler" as it relieved pressure on a target chip decision. Similarly, Wasabi has targeted a completely different end architecture with apparently little fuss. This is not a trivial result.
- jrockway 18y ago
  I think people are upset that Joel markets it as a good idea when, in fact, it is probably not that good of an idea. (Yes, he gets that 1% of the market that can't run whatever language they pick, but he has to maintain his own in-house programing language and toolchain, and train new developers to use a language that exists nowhere else in the world.)
gstar 18y ago
This is just tall poppy syndrome. Joel runs his successful business, bothers to blog about it since he founded it years ago, graciously comes on here and responds to people - nice of him, huh? So why so bitchy? You clearly disagree with his company's engineering decisions that you can't possibly have been privy to the reasoning behind. What's your motivation?
- blasdel 18y ago
  First of all, his business is so successful because he blogs about it, and establishes himself as a pundit. It isn't a 'bother', it's one of his primary responsibilities as the CEO. Why so bitchy? What's my motivation? -- this whole thing is call and response, we're just filling roles. Spolsky's slipped into punditry, you're the sycophant, and I'm the prick popping your balloons. Joel certainly wrote his post knowing that he was teasing for a "WTF Wasabi" response -- why don't you see that as valid? Any community where the only valid 'response' is fawning fanboy is not one I want to participate in, and I think spolsky would say the same. There's a reason he doesn't just post in his own forums. I disagree with his company's engineering decision based on the reasoning he's publicly given for it (which happens to also run counter to his past advice). He hasn't said anything about it for a while, though he dropped a promising tidbit in this thread: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=536023 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=536023
  - gstar 18y ago
    Instead of addressing my questions, you went with the ad hominem and called me a sycophant. Nice one. Love your generalisation about blogging and (alleged) punditry being a primary responsibility too - because clearly SO many CEOs take this responsibility in their stride.
    - blasdel 18y ago
      I wasn't talking about "many CEOs", just Joel. If you bother to read his blog posts, you'd notice that he constantly talks about how he's delegated away a lot of decision-making responsibility. He functions as the public face of his company. His companies' products are marketed towards developers, and I gather that most find out about them because of Spolsky's blogging -- he's a very effective salesman.

smanek 18y ago

What's wrong with that? All else being equal, compiling will generally be faster. Most languages (Python, Java, Ruby, most Common Lisps, etc) do compile - just (usually) to some intermediate and portable bytecode rather than raw machine code. That's probably what their compiler (Wasabi) does too (except, it seems like they are using PHP/VBScript/JS as their bytecode ;-)).

spolsky 18y ago
In FogBugz 6 the compiler output was PHP and VBScript. In FogBugz 7 the compiler output is .NET/CLR bytecodes. It also emits compressed JavaScript which runs on the browser.
- blasdel 18y ago
  You should write a new article about Wasabi as it is now, so we can stop making fun of you for it.
- smanek 18y ago
  Sounds good. But, there is nothing wrong with using some other language as your intermediate 'bytecode.' If memory serves, early versions of C++ compiled to C, Arc (basically) compiles to Scheme, Python can compile to C, and many others. Either way is good in my mind. But, I too, would appreciate some technical details about Wasabi (just out of academic curiosity). I feel like a lot of things I know about it are now outdated.
mynameishere 18y ago
I hate explaining myself, especially when it shouldn't be necessary. Yes, I know Java et al compiles to bytecode. But in practice you never hit a "compile" button because it compiles continuously.
- silentOpen 18y ago
  Java still has javac. I suppose an IDE could hide this from you. Of course, Java also has lots of static analysis tools written for it so many errors are caught way before compilation.