3 ms·

> or we could all deal with the fact that meat isn't a human right Neither is food, if you really want to go that route. The point of civilization is that we t

by derleth 14y ago

> or we could all deal with the fact that meat isn't a human right Neither is food, if you really want to go that route. The point of civilization is that we try to provide for ourselves things that are not just our rights, but our desires. (Show me where nature will automatically provide food for humans.)

harshreality 14y ago
I think GP was saying that access to meat is not a survival requirement, or even a requirement to be happy. I know people who would miss steak and ribs in a nostalgic sense, but anyone who hasn't found tasty vegan food hasn't looked very hard. Access to basic nutrition is a de facto human right, in the modern civic sense. Nature doesn't guarantee that humans are fed, but many governments try to, with welfare and food stamps.
- derleth 14y ago
  > access to meat is not a survival requirement, or even a requirement to be happy It is for some people. Or is their culture wrong to you?
mjmahone17 14y ago
Erm, pre-agriculture, that's all nature did. Hunter gatherers today still literally walk up to their food and pick it up (or pull it from bushes, etc.). Or run it to exhaustion. Sure, it takes a minimal amount of effort (and took a lot less when there weren't 6 billion people crowding out natural food supplies), but the state of nature provides plenty of food for a small population. What you're saying is essentially that there's no natural right to free speech, because nature doesn't provide you with language (it takes other humans teaching you how to speak before you can access your right to free speech).
- derleth 14y ago
  > pre-agriculture, that's all nature did Not in the slightest, and I wonder where you've lived that that's ever been the case. Not on Earth, certainly. The only things Nature provides free are sunlight, weather, and parasites.
boomlinde 14y ago
By the universal declaration of human rights, every person has the right to life. I'm sure you can figure out a way that wouldn't entail food. I'm not sure how nature automatically providing food has anything to do with it. The point of human rights is to provide for ourselves things that are not just facts of nature, but satisfy our ethical beliefs.

by derleth 14y ago

harshreality 14y ago

I think GP was saying that access to meat is not a survival requirement, or even a requirement to be happy. I know people who would miss steak and ribs in a nostalgic sense, but anyone who hasn't found tasty vegan food hasn't looked very hard. Access to basic nutrition is a de facto human right, in the modern civic sense. Nature doesn't guarantee that humans are fed, but many governments try to, with welfare and food stamps.

derleth 14y ago
> access to meat is not a survival requirement, or even a requirement to be happy It is for some people. Or is their culture wrong to you?

mjmahone17 14y ago

Erm, pre-agriculture, that's all nature did. Hunter gatherers today still literally walk up to their food and pick it up (or pull it from bushes, etc.). Or run it to exhaustion. Sure, it takes a minimal amount of effort (and took a lot less when there weren't 6 billion people crowding out natural food supplies), but the state of nature provides plenty of food for a small population. What you're saying is essentially that there's no natural right to free speech, because nature doesn't provide you with language (it takes other humans teaching you how to speak before you can access your right to free speech).

derleth 14y ago
> pre-agriculture, that's all nature did Not in the slightest, and I wonder where you've lived that that's ever been the case. Not on Earth, certainly. The only things Nature provides free are sunlight, weather, and parasites.

boomlinde 14y ago

By the universal declaration of human rights, every person has the right to life. I'm sure you can figure out a way that wouldn't entail food. I'm not sure how nature automatically providing food has anything to do with it. The point of human rights is to provide for ourselves things that are not just facts of nature, but satisfy our ethical beliefs.