6 ms·

"you're asking for trouble if you don't really dig in with a knowledgeable attorney who knows your industry, your goals, and how to keep you out of court." You

by wilfra 14y ago

"you're asking for trouble if you don't really dig in with a knowledgeable attorney who knows your industry, your goals, and how to keep you out of court." You sound like an expensive lawyer - or somebody who pays a lot of money to one. This simply isn't true for most people. However I grant you a lot of people feel the same way - and I'm sure their expensive lawyers love it.

Nrsolis 14y ago
IANAL. And you should apologize for calling me one. But I have paid good money to lawyers and it was worth every cent. Ask anyone who has ever had to fight a lawsuit (and won) if they thought they overpaid for legal advice. If you think the worst thing that can happen to you is you lose all of your money, BOY do I have news for you.
- wilfra 14y ago
  You're trying to convince yourself, as buyers of all expensive things do, that you didn't waste your money. I'm sorry to inform you, you probably did. I've done it too. However, it's best to learn from our mistakes, not try to convince others to repeat them.
  - Nrsolis 14y ago
    Hey, next time you are facing jail time, let me decide for you what your best options are, K? Do we have a deal?
    - wilfra 14y ago
      If you are a large and respected firm that handles plea bargains with a cookie cutter template for 90% cheaper than the cost of a private attorney, sure, we have a deal.
      - Nrsolis 14y ago
        WOW. Enjoy your cellmate dude. The jails are full of guys who think like you. Cookie cutter plea bargain. YIKES! Just plead guilty. It's cheaper!
        wilfra 14y ago
        I was going on the assumption that I was guilty ;) Being falsely accused of a crime and incorporating are not analogous. I agree that for some things paying an expensive lawyer is worth it. Incorporating is not one of them.
        Nrsolis 14y ago
        CORRECT. So maybe not all tangles with the law are equivalent in their need for specialized outside expertise, eh? Maybe it makes sense to think about it and maybe discuss with an actual attorney before you leap, eh? Maybe more than a few.
        wilfra 14y ago
        "maybe discuss with an actual attorney before you leap, eh? " Never ask a barber if you need a haircut.
        Nrsolis 14y ago
        "Never ask a barber if you need a haircut." That's a pointless response to an on-point comment.
        wilfra 14y ago
        You know what every lawyer in the history of the World ever said to the question 'do I need the services of an attorney to help me with this?' 'Yes' usually followed by the amount of the retainer they'll need. Your lawyer seems to have done great work selling you and I admire that. And you've now done a wonderful job of destroying your credibility, so others are unlikely to take your opinion seriously. My work here is done. Have a nice day!
- tptacek 14y ago
  I fought a lawsuit with a paid lawyer and it was a huge waste of money. The process took years and ended as these things inevitably do when both sides aren't crazy litigious nutbags: with a settlement we could have worked out from the jump.
  - Nrsolis 14y ago
    Well then why didn't you? You could have just went into the courtroom Pro Se and hoped for the best.
    - tptacek 14y ago
      I could have, yes. What I've learned about lawyers in the past 15 years is that about 49% of them are terrible. So processes that begin with "find a good lawyer" are a lot scarier to me than process that begin with "adopt this proven set of documents".
      - Nrsolis 14y ago
        Jesus. What about these documents makes you think they are "proven" by any measure? Exactly what metric are you using to make that determination?
        swampthing 14y ago
        Not the person you were asking the question of, but if I can jump in... These documents were created by a collaboration of attorneys from Orrick, YC, and a few other places. They are as proven as any forms you're going to get from any reputable startup lawyer.
        Nrsolis 14y ago
        Please forgive me: I know you are probably a great attorney and this is a relatively simple part of the law. When I say "proven", I'm thinking "has been tested in court" or "has withstood challenges by shareholder lawsuits". That may very well be the case with these documents. I'm just not qualified to make that determination and neither is my esteemed colleague.

by wilfra 14y ago

Nrsolis 14y ago

IANAL. And you should apologize for calling me one. But I have paid good money to lawyers and it was worth every cent. Ask anyone who has ever had to fight a lawsuit (and won) if they thought they overpaid for legal advice. If you think the worst thing that can happen to you is you lose all of your money, BOY do I have news for you.

wilfra 14y ago
You're trying to convince yourself, as buyers of all expensive things do, that you didn't waste your money. I'm sorry to inform you, you probably did. I've done it too. However, it's best to learn from our mistakes, not try to convince others to repeat them.
- Nrsolis 14y ago
  Hey, next time you are facing jail time, let me decide for you what your best options are, K? Do we have a deal?
  - wilfra 14y ago
    If you are a large and respected firm that handles plea bargains with a cookie cutter template for 90% cheaper than the cost of a private attorney, sure, we have a deal.
    - Nrsolis 14y ago
      WOW. Enjoy your cellmate dude. The jails are full of guys who think like you. Cookie cutter plea bargain. YIKES! Just plead guilty. It's cheaper!
      - wilfra 14y ago
        I was going on the assumption that I was guilty ;) Being falsely accused of a crime and incorporating are not analogous. I agree that for some things paying an expensive lawyer is worth it. Incorporating is not one of them.
        Nrsolis 14y ago
        CORRECT. So maybe not all tangles with the law are equivalent in their need for specialized outside expertise, eh? Maybe it makes sense to think about it and maybe discuss with an actual attorney before you leap, eh? Maybe more than a few.
        wilfra 14y ago
        "maybe discuss with an actual attorney before you leap, eh? " Never ask a barber if you need a haircut.
        Nrsolis 14y ago
        "Never ask a barber if you need a haircut." That's a pointless response to an on-point comment.
        wilfra 14y ago
        You know what every lawyer in the history of the World ever said to the question 'do I need the services of an attorney to help me with this?' 'Yes' usually followed by the amount of the retainer they'll need. Your lawyer seems to have done great work selling you and I admire that. And you've now done a wonderful job of destroying your credibility, so others are unlikely to take your opinion seriously. My work here is done. Have a nice day!
tptacek 14y ago
I fought a lawsuit with a paid lawyer and it was a huge waste of money. The process took years and ended as these things inevitably do when both sides aren't crazy litigious nutbags: with a settlement we could have worked out from the jump.
- Nrsolis 14y ago
  Well then why didn't you? You could have just went into the courtroom Pro Se and hoped for the best.
  - tptacek 14y ago
    I could have, yes. What I've learned about lawyers in the past 15 years is that about 49% of them are terrible. So processes that begin with "find a good lawyer" are a lot scarier to me than process that begin with "adopt this proven set of documents".
    - Nrsolis 14y ago
      Jesus. What about these documents makes you think they are "proven" by any measure? Exactly what metric are you using to make that determination?
      - swampthing 14y ago
        Not the person you were asking the question of, but if I can jump in... These documents were created by a collaboration of attorneys from Orrick, YC, and a few other places. They are as proven as any forms you're going to get from any reputable startup lawyer.
        Nrsolis 14y ago
        Please forgive me: I know you are probably a great attorney and this is a relatively simple part of the law. When I say "proven", I'm thinking "has been tested in court" or "has withstood challenges by shareholder lawsuits". That may very well be the case with these documents. I'm just not qualified to make that determination and neither is my esteemed colleague.