4 ms·

This might be somewhat ranty and unprofessional, but I have to say it You learn what's wrong from your parents, and your teachers, and society. I'd like to dis

This might be somewhat ranty and unprofessional, but I have to say it You learn what's wrong from your parents, and your teachers, and society. I'd like to disagree with you on that point. Yes, you get ideas passed down to your by others, but if you do not bother to examine them and act blindly on the premise that these things must be right, because others told you, without putting any deliberation into the truth of these moral dictates, then...how to get this across without seeming as angry and ranty as I am? Because things like this viscerally disgust me. My parent taught me they didn't care (or couldn't), my school taught me I was in the wrong place, and my peers taught me that I was scum. And I didn't act on those morals, or I wouldn't be writing this paragraph, nor living, nor breathing. Of course, this didn't last forever. I recovered, and I learned how to deal with people. But what you just said, that I...I was defective for not leaving a place that obviously didn't welcome me, the implication that I should have crossed hades, that's worse than telling me to "go die", because you said it with moral righteousness. Now I know you're talking about 14 year olds that spy on girls, and I don't think that's morally right either, but your explanation of why it isn't, it's just...wrong somehow. Firstof, they're not defective. Don't even say a child is broken. Misunderstood? Maybe. Misled? Maybe. But not broken nor defective nor hopeless. Because when you take a child, filled with expectations and hope, trying to make sense of the things that happen in the world, and you tell them they're broken, you're killing them. Yes, some might recover from it, just as someone shot might survive, but you and I agree that shooting a kid is still a pretty bad thing to do, no matter whether they survive or not, right? So don't do it. Ok, so after I've vented some of my anger, and proably shared way to personal details with everyone on here, back to business. Society is a pretty bad measuring stick for morals. Define the "average morals" to be the reference point, and Schindler becomes the most amoral man in the third reich. You see how this averaging is a pretty bad idea, right? Ok. Then to the disciplining thing. There's a difference between teaching something to your kids, and threatening them to do something. Teaching leads to moral understanding and a moral code. Threats will only teach that might is right, and the only thing holding together morals is violence. I think this worldview does point towards why religious people often ask atheist why they don't think the world will collapse into anarchy without the concept of a hell. Because hell is violence as the foundation of morals. If you want to affect any of those kids, go out and teach them why it's wrong instead of threatening to hit them if they do it again. TL;DR: As a past victim of social ostracism, post makes me angry. Average morals are a bad idea. Disciplining kids will lead to obedience from threat, not to morals. Teaching will. So go teach

Nursie 14y ago
I can tell there's a lot of thought and a lot of emotion behind that, I just wanted to say one thing - discipline, as instilled by parents or whoever else, doesn't have to come at the point of force. And if a child is 14 years old and pulling the stuff mentioned in the article, I'm sorry but they are defective. Maybe the sort of defective that can be fixed, but they are committing actual heinous crimes against other people. These are not the actions of kids filled with expectation and hope, these are the actions of little psychopaths with no empathy, and they need to be stopped.
- solistice 14y ago
  When you subtract the technological component, these things become bad pranks. My fathers generation used to search paper bins for porn and spy on the girls locker room, and these kids are scaping your laptop for porn and spy on girls through their webcams. Whilst I get that these things are slightly different, using technology as an excuse to blow an action all our of proportion is not a wise thing to do. We honestly should know that because we work with technology. See, a murder is a murder whether it was done with bare hands or with a guided rocket. Theft is theft, whether it is through snatching your wallet or hacking your bank data. So when kids do things they used to do in very similar ways the did in the past, with the only variable changing being technology, it'd be foolish to call them heinous criminals, or psychopaths with no empathy. At least that's my stand on the issue.
  - Nursie 14y ago
    Sorry what? Did you read TFA? Recording audio and video of people in their homes and then sharing it over the net, using it as leverage to get the victims to do things, harassing them in their homes... This in no way equivalent to sneaking a look into the girl's locker rooms or rummaging through a bin for discarded porn! It's harassment, it's invasion of privacy and it's downright evil. That's before we even get into computer hacking. You're right the tools don't matter in the slightest, but you completely miss the scale of the crimes. To throw it back at you - just because these kids are sat behind their computers at home doesn't make it any less heinous, or lessen the effects on the victims.

Nursie 14y ago

I can tell there's a lot of thought and a lot of emotion behind that, I just wanted to say one thing - discipline, as instilled by parents or whoever else, doesn't have to come at the point of force. And if a child is 14 years old and pulling the stuff mentioned in the article, I'm sorry but they are defective. Maybe the sort of defective that can be fixed, but they are committing actual heinous crimes against other people. These are not the actions of kids filled with expectation and hope, these are the actions of little psychopaths with no empathy, and they need to be stopped.

solistice 14y ago
When you subtract the technological component, these things become bad pranks. My fathers generation used to search paper bins for porn and spy on the girls locker room, and these kids are scaping your laptop for porn and spy on girls through their webcams. Whilst I get that these things are slightly different, using technology as an excuse to blow an action all our of proportion is not a wise thing to do. We honestly should know that because we work with technology. See, a murder is a murder whether it was done with bare hands or with a guided rocket. Theft is theft, whether it is through snatching your wallet or hacking your bank data. So when kids do things they used to do in very similar ways the did in the past, with the only variable changing being technology, it'd be foolish to call them heinous criminals, or psychopaths with no empathy. At least that's my stand on the issue.
- Nursie 14y ago
  Sorry what? Did you read TFA? Recording audio and video of people in their homes and then sharing it over the net, using it as leverage to get the victims to do things, harassing them in their homes... This in no way equivalent to sneaking a look into the girl's locker rooms or rummaging through a bin for discarded porn! It's harassment, it's invasion of privacy and it's downright evil. That's before we even get into computer hacking. You're right the tools don't matter in the slightest, but you completely miss the scale of the crimes. To throw it back at you - just because these kids are sat behind their computers at home doesn't make it any less heinous, or lessen the effects on the victims.