5 ms·

Bitspend - Buy Anything Using Bitcoins

76 points by gmaster1440 14y ago

wodow 14y ago
It's possible to submit the order form at https://www.bitspend.net/order.html https://www.bitspend.net/order.html and receive a success message without completing any of the fields. No validation - a big bug?
- cjg 14y ago
  It's an MVP. No point in writing all that validation code just yet - most people understand that you actually have to fill the fields in.
  - FireBeyond 14y ago
    I think an MVP of anything related to finances (be it cash, card, or bitcoin) should include SSL and validation. I see there's SSL. In any case, adding simple form validation there would have taken <10 minutes with a decent library (especially given that they're already "using" jQuery - though perhaps not actually "using"; it seems that they've taken the Bootstrap example HTML wholesale, and include a bunch of other Bootstrap jQuery plugins that they're not using - or have at least included it). Apparently their MVP includes a "secure warehouse"... but not ten minutes of Javascript? There are many things that can be excused under the umbrella of "... but MVP!". This site is asking people to place their trust in an anonymous entity to the sum of several hundred dollars - I say anonymous because there is ZERO contact information on the site, no address, email (well, other than for Media Requests), or anything. Speaking of anonymity, there are also no corporate registration records for "Bitspend LLC" in Florida (where the domain is registered), or the US, for that matter. MVP or not, this site doesn't scream "credibility".
    - BitspendJessica 14y ago
      We love the constructive criticism, however we would like to ask that you stick to facts when claiming something: "Speaking of anonymity, there are also no corporate registration records for "Bitspend LLC" in Florida " If you did a simple business title search on the FL sunbiz site, you would find Bitspend LLC listed, right at the top :) As far as your other concerns, we are able to admit that where the site is at this exact moment is not where it should be. We promise to have it up to your standards by end of week!!
      - FireBeyond 14y ago
        I'm willing to stand corrected. I had done a Dun & Bradstreet corporate registration search. Duly noted!
  - hoopism 14y ago
    If you're in the trust industry then validation goes a long way. I'd put that in the minimal column.
jerguismi 14y ago
Great MVP :) I guess you just receive the orders via the form, and if you see demand, then you start improving the product?
- BitspendJessica 14y ago
  That improvement is already underway!
crynix 14y ago
Cool idea! Few things about the website: * The navbar on https://www.bitspend.net/order.html https://www.bitspend.net/order.html isn't consistent with the rest of the site. It's missing the "Order Now" link. * I want to click your logo to go to the home page. * You're using the Bootstrap default favicon * Is the business's name Bitspend or BitSpend? Both appear on the site. * The links on the bottom of the main page don't go anywhere. * The text in the jumbotron/masthead is misleading. The item isn't shipped directly to the consumer. * "Unlimit Your Bitcoins" sounds a bit awkward. What about "Unleash Your Bitcoins"?
- unreal37 14y ago
  My understanding of the business is that the item IS shipped directly to the consumer. I send them X bitcoins (plus a $2 fee), and a link to amazon.com item, and they buy it for me using their credit card, and Amazon ships it to me not them. You think the item goes to them first?
  - FireBeyond 14y ago
    It says it goes to their warehouse first for "relabeling", then sent to you, "so you can shop anonymously". It probably also has the benefit of not triggering merchant anti-fraud mechanisms for shipping to all manner of different addresses.
    - unreal37 14y ago
      There's two types of packages: - Standard Order, $2 flat fee - Anonymous Order, 5% fee
contango 14y ago
yikes, hope you have good insurance and a fat legal warchest
advisedwang 14y ago
Clearly a secret CIA scheme to link personal details to bitcoin addresses.
- lignuist 14y ago
  I thought that's already done by silk road.
- yakiv 14y ago
  I'm no expert on bitcoin, but I've read that you can have as many addresses as you want. You could generate a new address for each time you order through bitspend and never give them your "main" address. Overall it may or may not be a better option than just buying directly from a merchant because of other considerations.
mazsa 14y ago
Standard Order, Order Total of $1: $2 fee; Guaranteed Anonymity, Order Total of $1: $0.05 fee Is it true?
Irregardless 14y ago
Gaining trust is key if you want people to give you personal and financial information, and the 30 second Bootstrap website really isn't inspiring any confidence -- especially the visible seams in your pasted together background, the complete lack of form validation, and all the blank links at the bottom.
- jonpaul 14y ago
  Coinbase is using basic Bootstrap, they seem to be doing fine, selling over $1M USD per month: http://blog.coinbase.com/post/42587245753/coinbase-is-now-selling-over-1m-usd-of-bitcoin-per http://blog.coinbase.com/post/42587245753/coinbase-is-now-se...
  - rishimoko 14y ago
    To the point, trusting Coinbase for a successful bitcoin purchase can be touch and go.
  - rbn 14y ago
    The difference is that YC has invested in Coinbase, which automatically gives them tons of credibility.
- blake8086 14y ago
  I'm constantly amused at the nit-picky things people seem to use to determine whether a site is trustworthy.
  - Irregardless 14y ago
    Yeah, it makes perfect sense to hand your address and bitcoins to anyone with a half-finished Bootstrap website, zero contact information, and zero information about their payment/delivery process.
    - adeaver 14y ago
      zero contact information, and zero information about their payment/delivery process Those are a lot better reasons to have doubts than whether or not their background has a seam in it.
JoshTriplett 14y ago
Interesting idea. When I saw the title, my first thoughts went to prepaid one-time credit cards, and I think that might work as a scalable version of this: specify how much you want to spend, send the corresponding amount of BTC (plus fee) to a specified address, and get a credit card number with that much on it to use at an arbitrary merchant that accepts credit cards.
- bbit 14y ago
  This idea has been going on for the past year at http://www.btcinstant.com http://www.btcinstant.com interesting that everyone freaking out over this site!
- rory096 14y ago
  Aside: Are you aware of any APIs for the creation of one-time credit/debit cards?
  - JoshTriplett 14y ago
    I don't know of any, no; you'd probably want to partner with a friendly local bank for that. Offering such an API seems like a great unfilled business idea; I can easily think of half a dozen great businesses to build around that API, and a couple of really obvious business models to charge for it.
    - rory096 14y ago
      Interesting. My initial thoughts were around a business built on that (better solving the problem I'm trying to address), but just an API could be huge. Looking around the internet, I've found a couple related things: Google Wallet creates a "Virtual OneTime Card" underwritten by The Bancorp Bank for each transaction. https://developers.google.com/commerce/wallet/online/faq https://developers.google.com/commerce/wallet/online/faq Citibank lets you log into your account and create a "virtual account number." http://blog.credit.com/2011/06/worried-about-online-security-use-a-temporary-credit-card-number/ http://blog.credit.com/2011/06/worried-about-online-security... This (brief) thread in a MasterCard forum, referencing closed APIs. https://developer.mastercard.com/portal/display/forums/One-time+credit+cards https://developer.mastercard.com/portal/display/forums/One-t...
rezrovs 14y ago
* How do you handle the cost of shipping if the user is not based in the USA? * If I buy from a non-USA based site, how are the customs charges handled when the items arrives at your warehouse? * How will you handle returns if the item is defective or damaged?
- unreal37 14y ago
  Not my site, but I think "Standard orders" go direct to you not to a warehouse. You pay shipping from the original seller, whatever they charge. You pay customs fees. Returns are going to be a pain in the ass - don't expect to be able to do that very easily. For "anonymous orders", the concept doesn't seem thought through very well. Only 5% fee on any order from $1-$300? So I want to buy something from eBay for $1, you will anonymize that for 5 cents? I don't think so. I doubt you'll be able to do international orders anonymously.
ISL 14y ago
Will money-laundering as a service pass legal muster? It'd be interesting if it does. Anyone know of case law that protects an idea like BitSpend? Anonymous purchasing power is a Good Thing; going through a third party seems like it adds wrinkles.
- lallysingh 14y ago
  Doubtful: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-gold http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-gold
silasb 14y ago
What happens if you need to refund something?
- MacsHeadroom 14y ago
  then you get a refund (including fee). They use some fancy PKI footwork to facilitate returns/refunds without retaining customer/order information.
FootballMuse 14y ago
What state are you reshipping from? There are sales tax implications unless you are in a state like Oregon. Also, I'm sure there are users that need an international reship.
lallysingh 14y ago
Unless you're specifically aiming for illegal transactions, I'd remove the specific reference to law enforcement.
- MichaelGG 14y ago
  I think it's good to have it mentioned, regardless. Too many sites claim they "won't turn over information" or claim they don't keep records, only to later say "ok well for LE, yeah", proving they had your data the entire time.
BitspendJessica 14y ago
Hey Guys, this is Jessica from Bitspend :) I want to cover a few things. 1. Yes, there is a lot wrong with the site right now - including the order form. We had been working all week on the new site, including an automated order-form, and at 4AM this morning we had major issues with the server. Since we had already publicized our launch, we chose to put together what we could for today as we fix the issues that broke the "real" site. We know the site right now is not what it should be - and its killing us too! We promise to have it all fixed shortly. 2. About our contact information. Within the week not only will we have 800 numbers for you to call for support, but we will also have our office address available, and invite anyone in our area to come in and check us out themselves. We are aware that what we are doing will take time to build trust in the community, and we will go above and beyond to make sure we earn it. We will continue to work on ways to improve our service to you, and to expand our offerings. We have a long road ahead, just as the Bitcoin economy itself does. We plan on making the most out of it and providing you all with a way to purchase ANYTHING(Legal!!) with Bitcoins.
johnrob 14y ago
This is likely to solicit questions about whether purchases can be anonymous. However, I don't think that matters. As long as an average Joe (who doesn't care about anonymity) can use this to spend bitcoins, the overall acceptance of the currency should increase. That benefits all bitcoin users, including the paranoid ones.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- adambard 14y ago
  > As long as an average Joe (who doesn't care about anonymity) can use this to spend bitcoins My question is, why does Joe who doesn't care about anonymity, care about Bitcoin?
  - johnrob 14y ago
    If you owe Joe money, he might accept bitcoins because he knows he can use them (minus a fee) at sites like bitspend.
aoetr 14y ago
Can this be used to buy non-physical goods? (e.g. website hosting) For physical goods, where are they shipped from? Also, I don't really understand the difference between "anonymous package" and "standard package". Finally, allowing people to come in person to your warehouse would be an useful option, since it would avoid creating shipping records and the risk of postal inspection.

76 points by gmaster1440 14y ago

wodow 14y ago

It's possible to submit the order form at https://www.bitspend.net/order.html https://www.bitspend.net/order.html and receive a success message without completing any of the fields. No validation - a big bug?

cjg 14y ago
It's an MVP. No point in writing all that validation code just yet - most people understand that you actually have to fill the fields in.
- FireBeyond 14y ago
  I think an MVP of anything related to finances (be it cash, card, or bitcoin) should include SSL and validation. I see there's SSL. In any case, adding simple form validation there would have taken <10 minutes with a decent library (especially given that they're already "using" jQuery - though perhaps not actually "using"; it seems that they've taken the Bootstrap example HTML wholesale, and include a bunch of other Bootstrap jQuery plugins that they're not using - or have at least included it). Apparently their MVP includes a "secure warehouse"... but not ten minutes of Javascript? There are many things that can be excused under the umbrella of "... but MVP!". This site is asking people to place their trust in an anonymous entity to the sum of several hundred dollars - I say anonymous because there is ZERO contact information on the site, no address, email (well, other than for Media Requests), or anything. Speaking of anonymity, there are also no corporate registration records for "Bitspend LLC" in Florida (where the domain is registered), or the US, for that matter. MVP or not, this site doesn't scream "credibility".
  - BitspendJessica 14y ago
    We love the constructive criticism, however we would like to ask that you stick to facts when claiming something: "Speaking of anonymity, there are also no corporate registration records for "Bitspend LLC" in Florida " If you did a simple business title search on the FL sunbiz site, you would find Bitspend LLC listed, right at the top :) As far as your other concerns, we are able to admit that where the site is at this exact moment is not where it should be. We promise to have it up to your standards by end of week!!
    - FireBeyond 14y ago
      I'm willing to stand corrected. I had done a Dun & Bradstreet corporate registration search. Duly noted!
- hoopism 14y ago
  If you're in the trust industry then validation goes a long way. I'd put that in the minimal column.

jerguismi 14y ago

Great MVP :) I guess you just receive the orders via the form, and if you see demand, then you start improving the product?

BitspendJessica 14y ago
That improvement is already underway!

crynix 14y ago

Cool idea! Few things about the website: * The navbar on https://www.bitspend.net/order.html https://www.bitspend.net/order.html isn't consistent with the rest of the site. It's missing the "Order Now" link. * I want to click your logo to go to the home page. * You're using the Bootstrap default favicon * Is the business's name Bitspend or BitSpend? Both appear on the site. * The links on the bottom of the main page don't go anywhere. * The text in the jumbotron/masthead is misleading. The item isn't shipped directly to the consumer. * "Unlimit Your Bitcoins" sounds a bit awkward. What about "Unleash Your Bitcoins"?

unreal37 14y ago
My understanding of the business is that the item IS shipped directly to the consumer. I send them X bitcoins (plus a $2 fee), and a link to amazon.com item, and they buy it for me using their credit card, and Amazon ships it to me not them. You think the item goes to them first?
- FireBeyond 14y ago
  It says it goes to their warehouse first for "relabeling", then sent to you, "so you can shop anonymously". It probably also has the benefit of not triggering merchant anti-fraud mechanisms for shipping to all manner of different addresses.
  - unreal37 14y ago
    There's two types of packages: - Standard Order, $2 flat fee - Anonymous Order, 5% fee

contango 14y ago

yikes, hope you have good insurance and a fat legal warchest

advisedwang 14y ago

Clearly a secret CIA scheme to link personal details to bitcoin addresses.

lignuist 14y ago
I thought that's already done by silk road.
yakiv 14y ago
I'm no expert on bitcoin, but I've read that you can have as many addresses as you want. You could generate a new address for each time you order through bitspend and never give them your "main" address. Overall it may or may not be a better option than just buying directly from a merchant because of other considerations.

mazsa 14y ago

Standard Order, Order Total of $1: $2 fee; Guaranteed Anonymity, Order Total of $1: $0.05 fee Is it true?

Irregardless 14y ago

Gaining trust is key if you want people to give you personal and financial information, and the 30 second Bootstrap website really isn't inspiring any confidence -- especially the visible seams in your pasted together background, the complete lack of form validation, and all the blank links at the bottom.

jonpaul 14y ago
Coinbase is using basic Bootstrap, they seem to be doing fine, selling over $1M USD per month: http://blog.coinbase.com/post/42587245753/coinbase-is-now-selling-over-1m-usd-of-bitcoin-per http://blog.coinbase.com/post/42587245753/coinbase-is-now-se...
- rishimoko 14y ago
  To the point, trusting Coinbase for a successful bitcoin purchase can be touch and go.
- rbn 14y ago
  The difference is that YC has invested in Coinbase, which automatically gives them tons of credibility.
blake8086 14y ago
I'm constantly amused at the nit-picky things people seem to use to determine whether a site is trustworthy.
- Irregardless 14y ago
  Yeah, it makes perfect sense to hand your address and bitcoins to anyone with a half-finished Bootstrap website, zero contact information, and zero information about their payment/delivery process.
  - adeaver 14y ago
    zero contact information, and zero information about their payment/delivery process Those are a lot better reasons to have doubts than whether or not their background has a seam in it.

JoshTriplett 14y ago

Interesting idea. When I saw the title, my first thoughts went to prepaid one-time credit cards, and I think that might work as a scalable version of this: specify how much you want to spend, send the corresponding amount of BTC (plus fee) to a specified address, and get a credit card number with that much on it to use at an arbitrary merchant that accepts credit cards.

bbit 14y ago
This idea has been going on for the past year at http://www.btcinstant.com http://www.btcinstant.com interesting that everyone freaking out over this site!
rory096 14y ago
Aside: Are you aware of any APIs for the creation of one-time credit/debit cards?
- JoshTriplett 14y ago
  I don't know of any, no; you'd probably want to partner with a friendly local bank for that. Offering such an API seems like a great unfilled business idea; I can easily think of half a dozen great businesses to build around that API, and a couple of really obvious business models to charge for it.
  - rory096 14y ago
    Interesting. My initial thoughts were around a business built on that (better solving the problem I'm trying to address), but just an API could be huge. Looking around the internet, I've found a couple related things: Google Wallet creates a "Virtual OneTime Card" underwritten by The Bancorp Bank for each transaction. https://developers.google.com/commerce/wallet/online/faq https://developers.google.com/commerce/wallet/online/faq Citibank lets you log into your account and create a "virtual account number." http://blog.credit.com/2011/06/worried-about-online-security-use-a-temporary-credit-card-number/ http://blog.credit.com/2011/06/worried-about-online-security... This (brief) thread in a MasterCard forum, referencing closed APIs. https://developer.mastercard.com/portal/display/forums/One-time+credit+cards https://developer.mastercard.com/portal/display/forums/One-t...

rezrovs 14y ago

* How do you handle the cost of shipping if the user is not based in the USA? * If I buy from a non-USA based site, how are the customs charges handled when the items arrives at your warehouse? * How will you handle returns if the item is defective or damaged?

unreal37 14y ago
Not my site, but I think "Standard orders" go direct to you not to a warehouse. You pay shipping from the original seller, whatever they charge. You pay customs fees. Returns are going to be a pain in the ass - don't expect to be able to do that very easily. For "anonymous orders", the concept doesn't seem thought through very well. Only 5% fee on any order from $1-$300? So I want to buy something from eBay for $1, you will anonymize that for 5 cents? I don't think so. I doubt you'll be able to do international orders anonymously.

ISL 14y ago

Will money-laundering as a service pass legal muster? It'd be interesting if it does. Anyone know of case law that protects an idea like BitSpend? Anonymous purchasing power is a Good Thing; going through a third party seems like it adds wrinkles.

lallysingh 14y ago
Doubtful: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-gold http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-gold

silasb 14y ago

What happens if you need to refund something?

MacsHeadroom 14y ago
then you get a refund (including fee). They use some fancy PKI footwork to facilitate returns/refunds without retaining customer/order information.

FootballMuse 14y ago

What state are you reshipping from? There are sales tax implications unless you are in a state like Oregon. Also, I'm sure there are users that need an international reship.

lallysingh 14y ago

Unless you're specifically aiming for illegal transactions, I'd remove the specific reference to law enforcement.

MichaelGG 14y ago
I think it's good to have it mentioned, regardless. Too many sites claim they "won't turn over information" or claim they don't keep records, only to later say "ok well for LE, yeah", proving they had your data the entire time.

BitspendJessica 14y ago

Hey Guys, this is Jessica from Bitspend :) I want to cover a few things. 1. Yes, there is a lot wrong with the site right now - including the order form. We had been working all week on the new site, including an automated order-form, and at 4AM this morning we had major issues with the server. Since we had already publicized our launch, we chose to put together what we could for today as we fix the issues that broke the "real" site. We know the site right now is not what it should be - and its killing us too! We promise to have it all fixed shortly. 2. About our contact information. Within the week not only will we have 800 numbers for you to call for support, but we will also have our office address available, and invite anyone in our area to come in and check us out themselves. We are aware that what we are doing will take time to build trust in the community, and we will go above and beyond to make sure we earn it. We will continue to work on ways to improve our service to you, and to expand our offerings. We have a long road ahead, just as the Bitcoin economy itself does. We plan on making the most out of it and providing you all with a way to purchase ANYTHING(Legal!!) with Bitcoins.

johnrob 14y ago

This is likely to solicit questions about whether purchases can be anonymous. However, I don't think that matters. As long as an average Joe (who doesn't care about anonymity) can use this to spend bitcoins, the overall acceptance of the currency should increase. That benefits all bitcoin users, including the paranoid ones.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
adambard 14y ago
> As long as an average Joe (who doesn't care about anonymity) can use this to spend bitcoins My question is, why does Joe who doesn't care about anonymity, care about Bitcoin?
- johnrob 14y ago
  If you owe Joe money, he might accept bitcoins because he knows he can use them (minus a fee) at sites like bitspend.

aoetr 14y ago

Can this be used to buy non-physical goods? (e.g. website hosting) For physical goods, where are they shipped from? Also, I don't really understand the difference between "anonymous package" and "standard package". Finally, allowing people to come in person to your warehouse would be an useful option, since it would avoid creating shipping records and the risk of postal inspection.