5 ms·

This is a very elitist and snobbish piece of writing and almost entirely inaccurate. Just for fun, I rewrote it a bit: Just to add, users rarely choose their c

This is a very elitist and snobbish piece of writing and almost entirely inaccurate. Just for fun, I rewrote it a bit: Just to add, users rarely choose their car at all. If we're talking about the unwashed masses here, then the primary reason Ford, Toyota, GM, or Volkswagon are popular at all is almost entirely due to happenstance. Joe consumer, comprising an ever increasing majority of the car buying population, simply doesn't care about which car she is driving. More often it is a result of what randomly went up for sale at the corner car lot. As a result, Ford's regular placement on the edge of the car lot give it "competitive" edges.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
_dark_matter_ 14y ago
I'm having trouble understanding what point you're trying to make. What, exactly, is "entirely inaccurate" about the comment? How is your rendition with physical cars similar? How is it snobbish in the least?
- michaelwww 14y ago
  Using terms like "unwashed masses" and "Joe sixpack" to describe the computer users of working class background where I come from is insulting. Why not just go all the way and them call them "white trash"? The inaccuracy I was trying to highlight with my rewrite was your idea that people of lower means and education don't care about what browser they use, presumably in your view because they are too ignorant to know the difference. Obviously, this is not the case with automobiles and is also not the case in choice of computers, browsers, mobile phones, etc... You don't have to have a college degree and a six figure income to be discerning about technology.
  - thisisabore 14y ago
    You used “Joe Sixpack”, the OP used “Joe Consumer” which sounds a lot less derogatory to me.
    - michaelwww 14y ago
      Right you are. That was unintentional on my part. My mind must have translated "unwashed masses" and "Joe" into "Joe sixpack." The overall tone of it still sounds derogatory to me.
      - alan_cx 14y ago
        Unintentional? I'd say Freudian.
        michaelwww 14y ago
        Accurate, although my resentment against the elite is mostly not unconscious.
        CyberDroiD 14y ago
        I don't find computer users elite. Nor do I find the average consumer to be masters of programming languages. "Joe Sixpack" makes sense to me. Someone who thinks computer experts are elite, and doesn't know much about computers.
  - hosay123 14y ago
    Speaking as someone of "lower means" and mostly with a lifelong dedication to computers, I don't particularly care what software I use, and if you forced me to try and rationalize my choices, most likely I would, like the majority of people on the planet, spout mostly meaningless bullshit. The "tech savvy" only differ in one sense: they are incredibly more delusional about their choices than the rest of the planet. I certainly haven't taken the time to study Chrome's design in depth (or for that matter Firefox's), and probably never will. My reasoning for using Firefox is due to a vague-warm-fuzzy ideological alignment I seem to have with Mozilla and their approach to software. Nothing quantitative, and certainly nothing adequately logical that I could use it to command authority over anyone else on the planet. In fact exactly the kind of thought processes that "joe user" experiences ("I like the icon.. it bounces"). 23 years spent in front of a machine, and that's still pretty much me.
    - icebraining 14y ago
      No, the difference is that you actually know what a browser is. "Google" is still a common reply to "what browser do you use?".
      - Oxxide 14y ago
        how is that not a valid response? sure, it's not semantically accurate. but, if someone says that, you know exactly what they mean. seems like a valid response to me any way you slice it. p.s. this kind of attitude is part of the problem.
        mercurial 14y ago
        > seems like a valid response to me any way you slice it. How so? It does not tell you if it's Firefox, Chrome, IE, Opera or Safari. My mom refers to the Internet as "google".
        yRetsyM 14y ago
        > My mom refers to the Internet as "Google". that's how she browses the internet then? in her case the application wouldn't matter to greatly if her point of reference is the Google search box
  - darkarmani 14y ago
    > Using terms like "unwashed masses" and "Joe sixpack" to describe the computer users of working class background where I come from is insulting. Why not just go all the way and them call them "white trash"? This highlights your confusion. The set of people that have average computer savvy contains all kinds of races and economic standing. It has nothing to do with "working class," wealth, or racial status and everything to do with computer skills. > You don't have to have a college degree and a six figure income to be discerning about technology. I'm not going to point any fingers, but I just want to say someone has some massive insecurities.
    - michaelwww 14y ago
      > someone has some massive insecurities. That's true. My father and mother were constantly on the verge of going broke, even though they both were employed and worked very hard to save. Medical bills were a real problem. Growing up insecure, it's not surprising I have insecurities. I did manage to get accepted to U.C. Berkeley, although I couldn't finish because my parents or I couldn't afford it and didn't have the skills needed to pursue all the financial aid options. > The set of people that have average computer savvy contains all kinds of races and economic standing How is that different from what I'm saying? Saying the "unwashed masses" don't care about what browser they use is inaccurate. That's all.
      - icebraining 14y ago
        You still haven't shown it to be inaccurate. It may simply be that the wealthy elite doesn't care either. That'd certainly be my guess. To the users, browsers are mostly homogeneous, and choosing one over the other incurs in almost no cost (real or of opportunity). It stands to reason that most people (regardless of class) don't have any incentive to care, and therefore they don't.
        michaelwww 14y ago
        That's just not the case or Microsoft wouldn't advertise it's "Do not track" feature, people wouldn't switch to Chrome just for incognito mode, and more people would be using IE on their Windows machines because it comes pre-installed. People do care.
  - _dark_matter_ 14y ago
    Just so you know, I didn't write the original comment.
cc11024 14y ago
You'd be astounded at how your "whatever's up for sale" comment mirrors reality. The vast, vast majority of sales are from local inventory, very few people place orders for specific options, colors, etc. Most people shop for deals rather than specific models or even brands. That's why you see so many multi brand dealers. Positioning is also key, that's why the largest dealers are right off highway exits and why so many dealers end up next to each other on the same road. The Big 3 made it through the miserable 70's and 80's mostly because they had dealers on every corner while superior Japanese brands were fighting to get lots built anywhere.
obstacle1 14y ago
I think that you're being reactive here. The terms "joe consumer" and "unwashed masses" don't have specific economic connotations, they are basically a synonym for "average".
- michaelwww 14y ago
  Wikitionary: unwashed masses (plural only) (idiomatic) The collective group ("mass") of people who are considered by someone to be somehow uneducated, uninformed, or in some other way unqualified for inclusion in the speaker's elite circles.
  - obstacle1 14y ago
    Note that your own definition has nothing to do with economic status.
    - michaelwww 14y ago
      It's implied. I'm trying to think of a group of unwashed above average income people. Burning Man attendees are the only group that comes to mind. Maybe you live in a country where rich people don't wash up. Edit: then there's the filthy rich.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

_dark_matter_ 14y ago

I'm having trouble understanding what point you're trying to make. What, exactly, is "entirely inaccurate" about the comment? How is your rendition with physical cars similar? How is it snobbish in the least?

michaelwww 14y ago
Using terms like "unwashed masses" and "Joe sixpack" to describe the computer users of working class background where I come from is insulting. Why not just go all the way and them call them "white trash"? The inaccuracy I was trying to highlight with my rewrite was your idea that people of lower means and education don't care about what browser they use, presumably in your view because they are too ignorant to know the difference. Obviously, this is not the case with automobiles and is also not the case in choice of computers, browsers, mobile phones, etc... You don't have to have a college degree and a six figure income to be discerning about technology.
- thisisabore 14y ago
  You used “Joe Sixpack”, the OP used “Joe Consumer” which sounds a lot less derogatory to me.
  - michaelwww 14y ago
    Right you are. That was unintentional on my part. My mind must have translated "unwashed masses" and "Joe" into "Joe sixpack." The overall tone of it still sounds derogatory to me.
    - alan_cx 14y ago
      Unintentional? I'd say Freudian.
      - michaelwww 14y ago
        Accurate, although my resentment against the elite is mostly not unconscious.
        CyberDroiD 14y ago
        I don't find computer users elite. Nor do I find the average consumer to be masters of programming languages. "Joe Sixpack" makes sense to me. Someone who thinks computer experts are elite, and doesn't know much about computers.
- hosay123 14y ago
  Speaking as someone of "lower means" and mostly with a lifelong dedication to computers, I don't particularly care what software I use, and if you forced me to try and rationalize my choices, most likely I would, like the majority of people on the planet, spout mostly meaningless bullshit. The "tech savvy" only differ in one sense: they are incredibly more delusional about their choices than the rest of the planet. I certainly haven't taken the time to study Chrome's design in depth (or for that matter Firefox's), and probably never will. My reasoning for using Firefox is due to a vague-warm-fuzzy ideological alignment I seem to have with Mozilla and their approach to software. Nothing quantitative, and certainly nothing adequately logical that I could use it to command authority over anyone else on the planet. In fact exactly the kind of thought processes that "joe user" experiences ("I like the icon.. it bounces"). 23 years spent in front of a machine, and that's still pretty much me.
  - icebraining 14y ago
    No, the difference is that you actually know what a browser is. "Google" is still a common reply to "what browser do you use?".
    - Oxxide 14y ago
      how is that not a valid response? sure, it's not semantically accurate. but, if someone says that, you know exactly what they mean. seems like a valid response to me any way you slice it. p.s. this kind of attitude is part of the problem.
      - mercurial 14y ago
        > seems like a valid response to me any way you slice it. How so? It does not tell you if it's Firefox, Chrome, IE, Opera or Safari. My mom refers to the Internet as "google".
        yRetsyM 14y ago
        > My mom refers to the Internet as "Google". that's how she browses the internet then? in her case the application wouldn't matter to greatly if her point of reference is the Google search box
- darkarmani 14y ago
  > Using terms like "unwashed masses" and "Joe sixpack" to describe the computer users of working class background where I come from is insulting. Why not just go all the way and them call them "white trash"? This highlights your confusion. The set of people that have average computer savvy contains all kinds of races and economic standing. It has nothing to do with "working class," wealth, or racial status and everything to do with computer skills. > You don't have to have a college degree and a six figure income to be discerning about technology. I'm not going to point any fingers, but I just want to say someone has some massive insecurities.
  - michaelwww 14y ago
    > someone has some massive insecurities. That's true. My father and mother were constantly on the verge of going broke, even though they both were employed and worked very hard to save. Medical bills were a real problem. Growing up insecure, it's not surprising I have insecurities. I did manage to get accepted to U.C. Berkeley, although I couldn't finish because my parents or I couldn't afford it and didn't have the skills needed to pursue all the financial aid options. > The set of people that have average computer savvy contains all kinds of races and economic standing How is that different from what I'm saying? Saying the "unwashed masses" don't care about what browser they use is inaccurate. That's all.
    - icebraining 14y ago
      You still haven't shown it to be inaccurate. It may simply be that the wealthy elite doesn't care either. That'd certainly be my guess. To the users, browsers are mostly homogeneous, and choosing one over the other incurs in almost no cost (real or of opportunity). It stands to reason that most people (regardless of class) don't have any incentive to care, and therefore they don't.
      - michaelwww 14y ago
        That's just not the case or Microsoft wouldn't advertise it's "Do not track" feature, people wouldn't switch to Chrome just for incognito mode, and more people would be using IE on their Windows machines because it comes pre-installed. People do care.
- _dark_matter_ 14y ago
  Just so you know, I didn't write the original comment.

cc11024 14y ago

You'd be astounded at how your "whatever's up for sale" comment mirrors reality. The vast, vast majority of sales are from local inventory, very few people place orders for specific options, colors, etc. Most people shop for deals rather than specific models or even brands. That's why you see so many multi brand dealers. Positioning is also key, that's why the largest dealers are right off highway exits and why so many dealers end up next to each other on the same road. The Big 3 made it through the miserable 70's and 80's mostly because they had dealers on every corner while superior Japanese brands were fighting to get lots built anywhere.

obstacle1 14y ago

I think that you're being reactive here. The terms "joe consumer" and "unwashed masses" don't have specific economic connotations, they are basically a synonym for "average".

michaelwww 14y ago
Wikitionary: unwashed masses (plural only) (idiomatic) The collective group ("mass") of people who are considered by someone to be somehow uneducated, uninformed, or in some other way unqualified for inclusion in the speaker's elite circles.
- obstacle1 14y ago
  Note that your own definition has nothing to do with economic status.
  - michaelwww 14y ago
    It's implied. I'm trying to think of a group of unwashed above average income people. Burning Man attendees are the only group that comes to mind. Maybe you live in a country where rich people don't wash up. Edit: then there's the filthy rich.