7 ms·

>> "I for one would love proof that the diet is wrong about cereals and legumes." >> "I read reports and testimonies of people getting better on it and athlete

>> "I for one would love proof that the diet is wrong about cereals and legumes." >> "I read reports and testimonies of people getting better on it and athletes performing on it." I think this is the wrong way round. When people make claims that stuff we've been eating for thousands of years (bread, cereals, grains etc.) are actually really bad for us, the burden of proof is on them. If anyone could actually prove that wheat causes weight gain and health problems (independent of other variables), they'd be a good candidate for the next Nobel in Medicine. Most studies I've read show that Paleo is no better or worse than a normal healthy diet. In some cases e.g. when you're an athlete, it'll be actively worse, since carbs are a basic source of fuel. [1] On top of this, Paleo promotes some claims that are ridiculous, e.g. that burning fat for fuel == burning carbs for fuel. They have totally different consequences. Yes, eating lots of carbs is bad for you. So is eating lots of fatty food. Loads of calories and not enough exercise means your body stores fat. That's sort of obvious, and nothing to do with any special properties that 'carbs' have. Just eat plenty of vegetables (esp green / strongly coloured ones), and make sure you get adequate amounts of protein & carbs. To lose weight, make sure calories in < calories out. That's the general pictures studies give us. Be extremely sceptical of anything claiming otherwise. I'm not sure why intelligent people can get so caught up in fads - such as Paleo - that are backed up by pseudo-science. My theory is that they appeal to the contrarian in us - after all, they're delightfully counter-intuitive in some ways (eating lots of steak can be good for me?!). You've got to have contrarian ideas to be really intelligent, but not all contrarianism is good. [1] I say this as a semi-pro runner who has tried running on a Paleo diet and found it disastrous. You cannot burn fat with the same efficiency as you can 'burn' carbs (i.e. use glycogen). It doesn't work that way. And if you still think it does, look up the diets of the top 10 athletes in basically any sport & explain to me why none of them are on Paleo.

mekoka 14y ago
>> You're getting all this the wrong way round. When people make claims that stuff we've been eating for thousands of years (bread, cereals, grains etc.) are actually really bad for us, the burden of proof is on them. I'm not sure if this should also apply with stuff that we put inside our body. In any case, not all of us are willing to wait that long, while we obviously see problems with the status quo. I choose to rather just make a judgement call based on social cues. >> On top of that Paleo promotes some claims that are clearly ridiculous, e.g. that burning fat for fuel == burning carbs for fuel. They have totally different consequences. This is inconsistent with anything I've read on this diet, but would be closer to the Low Carb High Fat diet, which I agree would be detrimental to an intense training regiment. May I suggest that you and I were not introduced to the same paleo diet? I recommend that you look up Robb Wolf. >> Yes, eating lots of carbs is bad for you. So is eating lots of fatty food. Or lots of anything. Just eat lots of green stuff, and make sure you get adequate amounts of protein & carbs. To lose weight, make sure calories in < calories out. Oddly, this is very consistent with what is promoted in the diet. >> It mystifies me how otherwise-intelligent people can get so caught up in fads such as Paleo, backed up by flimsy pseudo-science. Attempting to belittle people who choose to try the diet doesn't make you smarter and certainly doesn't prove nor validate your arguments. >> My theory is that they appeal to the contrarian in us - after all, they're delightfully counter-intuitive in some ways (eating lots of steak can be good for me?!). That is indeed only a theory. On the other hand, maybe some of us actually do see some results. >> And if you still think it does, look up the diets of the top 10 athletes in basically any sport & explain to me why none of them are on Paleo. The diet is extremely prevalent in the crossfit circles (it's even increasingly overshadowing the official diet, which is The Zone diet) and mixed martial arts (many of my training mates switch to it prior to competition). During my own research I stumbled upon this interview http://youtu.be/r-WRn8UttXw?t=10m http://youtu.be/r-WRn8UttXw?t=10m (interview starts 10 minutes in the video, somewhere within the first 2 minutes after it begins Joe Rogan mentions having talked to many fighters who are on it). My take away: "otherwise-intelligent people" use the diet as a set of guidelines for improved health and quality of life. You can choose to take it as a religion, but then lots of things just get more difficult. If you practice a sport, you need to adapt the diet to the demands of your discipline. I recommend to look up experts who are more sport oriented (I mentioned Robb Wolf earlier).
- Sumaso 14y ago
  But what he is trying to say is you don't need any fancy rules except for: >> Yes, eating lots of carbs is bad for you. So is eating lots of fatty food. Or lots of anything. Just eat lots of green stuff, and make sure you get adequate amounts of protein & carbs. To lose weight, make sure calories in < calories out." By agreeing with him, you have to come to the conclusion that following the above advice is what makes any diet good. There is nothing "unholy" about grains. I believe that was the point nqureshi was trying to make.
  - mekoka 14y ago
    I can agree with him on that specific point, but beyond that there's the issue of people he calls pseudo-scientists (who are actual scientists that do actual academic research on the topic), that are linking degenerative diseases and grain consumption. http://thepaleodiet.com/published-research-about-the-paleo-diet/ http://thepaleodiet.com/published-research-about-the-paleo-d.... That and the accompanying evidence on actual people http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLjgBLwH3Wc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLjgBLwH3Wc.
    - deleted 14y ago
      [deleted]
FK506 14y ago
Good enough for dad good enough for me but is there any research to support it? There is no shortage of research supporting low carb whole grain and fresh fruit over highly processed foods. There are also numerous well documented incidents of people moving from native foods to processed grain and other food suffered negative health effects. Personally I dont think whole grain foods are all that bad in reasonable amounts. I got lazy as there it doesn't take much work finding research supporting increased fresh fruits vegetables and lean meat. http://www.ars.usda.gov/news/docs.htm?docid=9234 http://www.ars.usda.gov/news/docs.htm?docid=9234 http://www.ars.usda.gov/News/docs.htm?docid=23004 http://www.ars.usda.gov/News/docs.htm?docid=23004 http://www.ars.usda.gov/News/docs.htm?docid=22791 http://www.ars.usda.gov/News/docs.htm?docid=22791
jgj 14y ago
Paleo is not a "low carb" diet. The point of Paleo is not to reduce the number of carbohydrates you ingest; nor is it to enter ketosis; nor is the primary goal of Paleo to lose weight. You have been reading the wrong things, and I can't even imagine what lead you to believe that you could run at any serious level without ingesting carbs. The pop-fad elements of the diet that have been parroted by journalists are generally the "elevator pitch" version of the diet, not the real 'meat' (pun so intended). The main tenets of the diet are to avoid processed and/or high-sugar food, grains, (non-fermented) legumes, bad fats/oils (especially those from seeds), and dairy, and to seek out whole foods, fish and lean meats (especially from ruminants and organs) and good sources of fat (with good omega 3/6 ratio). Some folks can handle dairy just fine and do so. Some can eat white rice or white potatos and suffer no ill effects. Those are not outright banned by the diet. Carbohydrates can come in many forms that are accessible on the diet. You were lied to, and I'm sorry that you tried to run without eating carbs, I image that would be unpleasant. But please discontinue spreading misinformation about Paleo, as it has vast benefits when applied correctly and in line with your body's needs.
- potatolicious 14y ago
  > "The point of Paleo is not to reduce the number of carbohydrates you ingest; nor is it to enter ketosis" Having been curious enough to browse paleo forums (including /r/paleo most recently), this is how most adherents seem to define it. They may be wrong, but in that case it seems the majority of the paleo community is wrong. > "But please discontinue spreading misinformation about Paleo" It would be nice, then, if the paleo community can first come to an agreement about what it is, because even disregarding literature "from the outside", reduction in carbs and entering ketosis is a huge focus of conversations I've seen on these communities.
  - jgj 14y ago
    I agree with you that the community at large is full of individuals looking for quick-weight-loss diet magic and that ketosis can be a fringe benefit of Paleo if you intentionally limit your carbs. But the community is not the diet, and the _majority_ of the community are, as with most diets, people following a fad insomuch as it doesn't actually interfere with their current habits. /r/paleo was a good source for a hot month or two a few years ago, but nowadays it should be called /r/bacon and its content taken with a grain of salt.

mekoka 14y ago

>> You're getting all this the wrong way round. When people make claims that stuff we've been eating for thousands of years (bread, cereals, grains etc.) are actually really bad for us, the burden of proof is on them. I'm not sure if this should also apply with stuff that we put inside our body. In any case, not all of us are willing to wait that long, while we obviously see problems with the status quo. I choose to rather just make a judgement call based on social cues. >> On top of that Paleo promotes some claims that are clearly ridiculous, e.g. that burning fat for fuel == burning carbs for fuel. They have totally different consequences. This is inconsistent with anything I've read on this diet, but would be closer to the Low Carb High Fat diet, which I agree would be detrimental to an intense training regiment. May I suggest that you and I were not introduced to the same paleo diet? I recommend that you look up Robb Wolf. >> Yes, eating lots of carbs is bad for you. So is eating lots of fatty food. Or lots of anything. Just eat lots of green stuff, and make sure you get adequate amounts of protein & carbs. To lose weight, make sure calories in < calories out. Oddly, this is very consistent with what is promoted in the diet. >> It mystifies me how otherwise-intelligent people can get so caught up in fads such as Paleo, backed up by flimsy pseudo-science. Attempting to belittle people who choose to try the diet doesn't make you smarter and certainly doesn't prove nor validate your arguments. >> My theory is that they appeal to the contrarian in us - after all, they're delightfully counter-intuitive in some ways (eating lots of steak can be good for me?!). That is indeed only a theory. On the other hand, maybe some of us actually do see some results. >> And if you still think it does, look up the diets of the top 10 athletes in basically any sport & explain to me why none of them are on Paleo. The diet is extremely prevalent in the crossfit circles (it's even increasingly overshadowing the official diet, which is The Zone diet) and mixed martial arts (many of my training mates switch to it prior to competition). During my own research I stumbled upon this interview http://youtu.be/r-WRn8UttXw?t=10m http://youtu.be/r-WRn8UttXw?t=10m (interview starts 10 minutes in the video, somewhere within the first 2 minutes after it begins Joe Rogan mentions having talked to many fighters who are on it). My take away: "otherwise-intelligent people" use the diet as a set of guidelines for improved health and quality of life. You can choose to take it as a religion, but then lots of things just get more difficult. If you practice a sport, you need to adapt the diet to the demands of your discipline. I recommend to look up experts who are more sport oriented (I mentioned Robb Wolf earlier).

Sumaso 14y ago
But what he is trying to say is you don't need any fancy rules except for: >> Yes, eating lots of carbs is bad for you. So is eating lots of fatty food. Or lots of anything. Just eat lots of green stuff, and make sure you get adequate amounts of protein & carbs. To lose weight, make sure calories in < calories out." By agreeing with him, you have to come to the conclusion that following the above advice is what makes any diet good. There is nothing "unholy" about grains. I believe that was the point nqureshi was trying to make.
- mekoka 14y ago
  I can agree with him on that specific point, but beyond that there's the issue of people he calls pseudo-scientists (who are actual scientists that do actual academic research on the topic), that are linking degenerative diseases and grain consumption. http://thepaleodiet.com/published-research-about-the-paleo-diet/ http://thepaleodiet.com/published-research-about-the-paleo-d.... That and the accompanying evidence on actual people http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLjgBLwH3Wc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLjgBLwH3Wc.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]

FK506 14y ago

Good enough for dad good enough for me but is there any research to support it? There is no shortage of research supporting low carb whole grain and fresh fruit over highly processed foods. There are also numerous well documented incidents of people moving from native foods to processed grain and other food suffered negative health effects. Personally I dont think whole grain foods are all that bad in reasonable amounts. I got lazy as there it doesn't take much work finding research supporting increased fresh fruits vegetables and lean meat. http://www.ars.usda.gov/news/docs.htm?docid=9234 http://www.ars.usda.gov/news/docs.htm?docid=9234 http://www.ars.usda.gov/News/docs.htm?docid=23004 http://www.ars.usda.gov/News/docs.htm?docid=23004 http://www.ars.usda.gov/News/docs.htm?docid=22791 http://www.ars.usda.gov/News/docs.htm?docid=22791

jgj 14y ago

Paleo is not a "low carb" diet. The point of Paleo is not to reduce the number of carbohydrates you ingest; nor is it to enter ketosis; nor is the primary goal of Paleo to lose weight. You have been reading the wrong things, and I can't even imagine what lead you to believe that you could run at any serious level without ingesting carbs. The pop-fad elements of the diet that have been parroted by journalists are generally the "elevator pitch" version of the diet, not the real 'meat' (pun so intended). The main tenets of the diet are to avoid processed and/or high-sugar food, grains, (non-fermented) legumes, bad fats/oils (especially those from seeds), and dairy, and to seek out whole foods, fish and lean meats (especially from ruminants and organs) and good sources of fat (with good omega 3/6 ratio). Some folks can handle dairy just fine and do so. Some can eat white rice or white potatos and suffer no ill effects. Those are not outright banned by the diet. Carbohydrates can come in many forms that are accessible on the diet. You were lied to, and I'm sorry that you tried to run without eating carbs, I image that would be unpleasant. But please discontinue spreading misinformation about Paleo, as it has vast benefits when applied correctly and in line with your body's needs.

potatolicious 14y ago
> "The point of Paleo is not to reduce the number of carbohydrates you ingest; nor is it to enter ketosis" Having been curious enough to browse paleo forums (including /r/paleo most recently), this is how most adherents seem to define it. They may be wrong, but in that case it seems the majority of the paleo community is wrong. > "But please discontinue spreading misinformation about Paleo" It would be nice, then, if the paleo community can first come to an agreement about what it is, because even disregarding literature "from the outside", reduction in carbs and entering ketosis is a huge focus of conversations I've seen on these communities.
- jgj 14y ago
  I agree with you that the community at large is full of individuals looking for quick-weight-loss diet magic and that ketosis can be a fringe benefit of Paleo if you intentionally limit your carbs. But the community is not the diet, and the _majority_ of the community are, as with most diets, people following a fad insomuch as it doesn't actually interfere with their current habits. /r/paleo was a good source for a hot month or two a few years ago, but nowadays it should be called /r/bacon and its content taken with a grain of salt.