3 ms·

Let's remember this is in context of owning guns and having children. Children like to swim in pools. Children like to ride bicycles. I sure hope even the most

Let's remember this is in context of owning guns and having children. Children like to swim in pools. Children like to ride bicycles. I sure hope even the most enthusiastic gun owner doesn't give guns to children to play with. I don't have to justify the usefulness of pools or bicycles. The kids like them, it's a fact. As a society we tolerate the risk of those things. Is it rational? Should we? I don't care - we just do and that's a fact. You can take away a risk associated with a pool or bicycle but only by taking away the fun that children have swimming in pools or riding a bicycle. It's true that some parents enjoy the things you can do with a gun. It's also true that having a gun in the house is additional, sometimes tragic, risk with no benefit to children. First, as a parent you're supposed to put the benefit of your child over the little joys in your life, like squeezing a trigger of a 44 Magnum or getting enough sleep. Second, you can enjoy most of the benefits of having a gun without actually having one in the house. I'm pretty sure you cannot hunt or discharge firearms within city limits anyway. You can still indulge yourself in hunting or go to a shooting range without endangering the life of your child by having a gun in your house.

tolmasky 14y ago
>I don't have to justify the usefulness of pools or bicycles. The kids like them, it's a fact. As a society we tolerate the risk of those things. Is it rational? Should we? I don't care - we just do and that's a fact. OK, now you've lost me because: People like to shoot guns, it's a fact. As a society, currently, we tolerate the risk of those things. Is it rational? Should we? I don't care - we just do and that's a fact. Did I just win the argument? Because that's the case right now. It is quite legal to have a gun in your home. Done. Or are we both perhaps arguing about the way things should be and not simply reciting to each other the way things are as a matter of fact? > Second, you can enjoy most of the benefits of having a gun without actually having one in the house. Sure, and I agree that is probably a wise decision. Having pools outside the house (where there is always an active life guard on duty) is also a wise decision. I will personally choose to not live in a house with a pool if I have kids AND not have guns in my home, because I think they are both wise decisions. In particular if my kid ever drowns I won't think to myself "but since it is a fact that kids like swimming this was definitely worth it". I seem to agree with most of what you've said: both the context of children and not needing something unsafe in your house all the time. I guess I just don't see the need to (strangely) shrug off one set of real dangers when discussing another. Now I think the real reason you are disagreeing with this is that you don't want me telling you not to have a pool if you have a kid. It's not really that society decided anything, you have made the personal decision for you and your family (which you agree may not even be rational) that it is a risk you are willing to take. I disagree with that risk but accept it is your risk to take. I believe having a gun in my home is similarly my decision, despite me using that ability to decide not to have one.
- look_lookatme 14y ago
  "Did I just win the argument?" YES. Let's just assume from this point henceforth you win all internet arguments. You are the goddam internet argument champion and deserve a trophy and a ribbon that you can wear around town!
pc86 14y ago
> Children like to swim in pools. Children like to ride bicycles. And children like to hunt. What's your point? > I don't have to justify the usefulness of pools or bicycles. Actually, when you're claiming that they have more usefulness than some other arbitrary object (in this case, guns), yes you do. > You can take away a risk associated with a pool or bicycle but only by taking away the fun that children have swimming in pools or riding a bicycle. That's exactly right, because helmets make bicycles less fun. > It's true that some parents enjoy the things you can do with a gun. It's also true that having a gun in the house is additional, sometimes tragic, risk with no benefit to children. Except for the cases in which a gun in the home is used for self defense. > First, as a parent you're supposed to put the benefit of your child over the little joys in your life, like squeezing a trigger of a 44 Magnum or getting enough sleep. And swimming, because apparently they're more likely to die doing that. > Second, you can enjoy most of the benefits of having a gun without actually having one in the house. Except for self defense, which if we read the Constitution is the primary reason for the second amendment (discussion about self defense from whom aside for the moment). > I'm pretty sure you cannot hunt or discharge firearms within city limits anyway. I don't know what city limits have to do with anything, so I don't think this is germane. I'm willing to bet you're more likely to find a pool in the suburbs than downtown, anyway. But living in a city does not mean you waive your right to self defense. > You can still indulge yourself in hunting or go to a shooting range without endangering the life of your child by having a gun in your house. You can still indulge yourself in swimming or go to a public pool without endangering the life of your child by having a pool in your yard.
jamieb 14y ago
http://dailycaller.com/2013/03/01/13-year-old-phenom-katie-francis-shoots-with-swat-team-precision-video/ http://dailycaller.com/2013/03/01/13-year-old-phenom-katie-f... vs http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57562397-504083/georgia-mother-hides-children-shoots-intruder-5-times-during-home-invasion-police-say/ http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57562397-504083/georg...
pcote 14y ago
>I sure hope even the most enthusiastic gun owner doesn't give guns to children to play with. In some families, a father will put a loaded gun in the hands of his 12-year-old son and have him shoot at targets. You are right. It's never okay to give a kid a gun to "play with". However, giving a kid a gun to teach him respect for firearms is a little different.
dionidium 14y ago
Parents give their kids supervised access to guns all the time. I shot guns as a child. Most of my friends did, too. This is common in rural areas of the midwestern United States. I'm guessing that you didn't grow up in that environment, so that seems odd to you, but it's normal for millions of people.

tolmasky 14y ago

>I don't have to justify the usefulness of pools or bicycles. The kids like them, it's a fact. As a society we tolerate the risk of those things. Is it rational? Should we? I don't care - we just do and that's a fact. OK, now you've lost me because: People like to shoot guns, it's a fact. As a society, currently, we tolerate the risk of those things. Is it rational? Should we? I don't care - we just do and that's a fact. Did I just win the argument? Because that's the case right now. It is quite legal to have a gun in your home. Done. Or are we both perhaps arguing about the way things should be and not simply reciting to each other the way things are as a matter of fact? > Second, you can enjoy most of the benefits of having a gun without actually having one in the house. Sure, and I agree that is probably a wise decision. Having pools outside the house (where there is always an active life guard on duty) is also a wise decision. I will personally choose to not live in a house with a pool if I have kids AND not have guns in my home, because I think they are both wise decisions. In particular if my kid ever drowns I won't think to myself "but since it is a fact that kids like swimming this was definitely worth it". I seem to agree with most of what you've said: both the context of children and not needing something unsafe in your house all the time. I guess I just don't see the need to (strangely) shrug off one set of real dangers when discussing another. Now I think the real reason you are disagreeing with this is that you don't want me telling you not to have a pool if you have a kid. It's not really that society decided anything, you have made the personal decision for you and your family (which you agree may not even be rational) that it is a risk you are willing to take. I disagree with that risk but accept it is your risk to take. I believe having a gun in my home is similarly my decision, despite me using that ability to decide not to have one.

look_lookatme 14y ago
"Did I just win the argument?" YES. Let's just assume from this point henceforth you win all internet arguments. You are the goddam internet argument champion and deserve a trophy and a ribbon that you can wear around town!

pc86 14y ago

> Children like to swim in pools. Children like to ride bicycles. And children like to hunt. What's your point? > I don't have to justify the usefulness of pools or bicycles. Actually, when you're claiming that they have more usefulness than some other arbitrary object (in this case, guns), yes you do. > You can take away a risk associated with a pool or bicycle but only by taking away the fun that children have swimming in pools or riding a bicycle. That's exactly right, because helmets make bicycles less fun. > It's true that some parents enjoy the things you can do with a gun. It's also true that having a gun in the house is additional, sometimes tragic, risk with no benefit to children. Except for the cases in which a gun in the home is used for self defense. > First, as a parent you're supposed to put the benefit of your child over the little joys in your life, like squeezing a trigger of a 44 Magnum or getting enough sleep. And swimming, because apparently they're more likely to die doing that. > Second, you can enjoy most of the benefits of having a gun without actually having one in the house. Except for self defense, which if we read the Constitution is the primary reason for the second amendment (discussion about self defense from whom aside for the moment). > I'm pretty sure you cannot hunt or discharge firearms within city limits anyway. I don't know what city limits have to do with anything, so I don't think this is germane. I'm willing to bet you're more likely to find a pool in the suburbs than downtown, anyway. But living in a city does not mean you waive your right to self defense. > You can still indulge yourself in hunting or go to a shooting range without endangering the life of your child by having a gun in your house. You can still indulge yourself in swimming or go to a public pool without endangering the life of your child by having a pool in your yard.

jamieb 14y ago

http://dailycaller.com/2013/03/01/13-year-old-phenom-katie-francis-shoots-with-swat-team-precision-video/ http://dailycaller.com/2013/03/01/13-year-old-phenom-katie-f... vs http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57562397-504083/georgia-mother-hides-children-shoots-intruder-5-times-during-home-invasion-police-say/ http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57562397-504083/georg...

pcote 14y ago

>I sure hope even the most enthusiastic gun owner doesn't give guns to children to play with. In some families, a father will put a loaded gun in the hands of his 12-year-old son and have him shoot at targets. You are right. It's never okay to give a kid a gun to "play with". However, giving a kid a gun to teach him respect for firearms is a little different.

dionidium 14y ago

Parents give their kids supervised access to guns all the time. I shot guns as a child. Most of my friends did, too. This is common in rural areas of the midwestern United States. I'm guessing that you didn't grow up in that environment, so that seems odd to you, but it's normal for millions of people.