4 ms·

Is New York a bad place to set up shop?

2 points by karzeem 19y ago

yamadacracy 19y ago
It depends. Most of the people are poseurs ... most of the VCs in particular are poseurs (many aren't even VCs per se) ... programmers who are slightly capable all work for investment banks and make hundreds of thousands of dollars ... AND EXPECT similar salary arrangements at a startup no matter how many times you try to explain to them that that's not how it's done at a startup. On the other hand, if you DO manage to somehow cobble something together, I'd imagine that NY is a pretty exciting place to be and work your rear end off. Nothing like crawling out of your office late at night and walking a few blocks in Manhattan and finding more energy to keep up the pace in ... oh ... five minutes. Are you in New York?
karzeem 19y ago
Obviously, Silicon Valley is the capital of the startup world. But would a startup that's successful there fail in New York? My wariness about the Bay Area is mainly related to groupthink. Being surrounded by people who are all in the same industry, thinking about the same issues, talking about the same things, has obvious benefits. At the same time, it seems that the only companies that succeed, whether they're based in the Bay Area or not, are the ones that ignore an important piece of conventional wisdom. And that seems like it would be harder to do when you're immersed in it. If you don't want to drink the Kool-Aid, you should have some hesitation about moving to the factory. The upside of New York specifically, and Boston too (besides the fact that they're beautiful, vibrant cities), is the cross-pollination you get by being in touch with different cultures and industries. In the right circumstances, that benefit could greatly outweigh the value of being in a place that has bigger-name VCs and contacts. And lastly, Google's second-biggest office is in New York, so that may be the beginning of something very important there.
- yamadacracy 19y ago
  I agree with you on most things but differ with one point - for some reason, it's very hard to find people to take plunges, even part time, in New York. New York is very image concerned and can be vicious, professionaly and socially, if you misstep. Failure in Silicon Valley is seen as part of learning. In most other parts of the word it's seen as ... just failure. In New York it seems to be evidence that all your ancestors suck and you'll go on to become re-incarnated as a worm for all eternity. Ironically, though - I think that if you could transplant the "let's do it" mentality of SV to NY, then NY would be just as and possibly more successful. I can't for the like of me figure out why more people in NY can't find the spine to try more things. On the other hand, the life can be a bit too "vibrant" ... I know some good techie folks but they're more likely trying to go to some wine tasting at a posh lounge than coding until 1 a.m. So it definately has potential, IMO, but for some reason the fuse is wet and can't seem to spark.
- pg 19y ago
  Empirically the advantages of concentration are bigger than the disadvantages, and this applies as much when comparing NYC and the Bay Area as Detroit and NYC. Google's NY office doesn't signify anything in particular. They knew a lot of smart people were trapped on the east coast, e.g. by family stuff, so they established an office here. They put it in NYC because they already had an ad sales office there. I think that was a mistake, actually; Boston is a much more Googly place than NYC.
  - danielha 19y ago
    The Google in Cambridge is a pretty substantial operation and I believe it's growing quite fast.
rms 19y ago
It comes down to raising money... New York's great, but it's exponentially easier for a social networking site to raise money in the Bay Area.
- yamadacracy 19y ago
  It depends ... NY is generally harder to raise money professionaly, but quite often easier socially and especially after-the-fact. If by exponentially faster you mean more VC firms and what not, sure. Most NY VCs are poseurs. But on the other hand, I doubt you're going to be in some SV night club or bar and start a conversation with someone your age whose father happens to have a shipping line in Greece or a construction company in Saudi Arabia or an oil company in Russia or what have you. Last time I checked nobody was flocking to SV for the party scene -- and people with money like to party.
- Y2 19y ago
  True - at least professionally. Plust it's hard to find people with the startup mentality in NY, which is ironic because people with the startup mentality I think would actually do well in NY, just hard to find them.
- karzeem 19y ago
  There are so many variables to tease apart, though. Are more companies raising money out west just because there are more good companies out there? And the fact that companies are more likely to get funded in the Bay Area doesn't necessarily mean they are better companies. It might just be that angels and VCs are looser with money out there. One really useful metric in all of this would be comparing the Bay Area's percentage of VC-backed startups that actually succeed to that of Boston and New York. That would help cut right to the long-term relevance to success that funding has in the first place. (The idea being that bad companies are unlikely to succeed even if they do get funding and that good companies are likely to get funding even if they're outside the Bay Area).
  - rms 19y ago
    Some companies know in advance that their business model requires raising money. It doesn't make sense for those companies to not locate themselves in the Bay Area. Everyone else is much more flexible.
gibsonf1 19y ago
My vote is for San Francisco to become the new startup capital. Why not? :)
- Y3 19y ago
  Cost of living?
Y3 19y ago
Are you in New York? Do you ask from the perspective of an insider or from that of someone considering a move there?
- karzeem 19y ago
  Just considering. We're not tied down anywhere.

2 points by karzeem 19y ago

It depends. Most of the people are poseurs ... most of the VCs in particular are poseurs (many aren't even VCs per se) ... programmers who are slightly capable all work for investment banks and make hundreds of thousands of dollars ... AND EXPECT similar salary arrangements at a startup no matter how many times you try to explain to them that that's not how it's done at a startup. On the other hand, if you DO manage to somehow cobble something together, I'd imagine that NY is a pretty exciting place to be and work your rear end off. Nothing like crawling out of your office late at night and walking a few blocks in Manhattan and finding more energy to keep up the pace in ... oh ... five minutes. Are you in New York?

karzeem 19y ago

Obviously, Silicon Valley is the capital of the startup world. But would a startup that's successful there fail in New York? My wariness about the Bay Area is mainly related to groupthink. Being surrounded by people who are all in the same industry, thinking about the same issues, talking about the same things, has obvious benefits. At the same time, it seems that the only companies that succeed, whether they're based in the Bay Area or not, are the ones that ignore an important piece of conventional wisdom. And that seems like it would be harder to do when you're immersed in it. If you don't want to drink the Kool-Aid, you should have some hesitation about moving to the factory. The upside of New York specifically, and Boston too (besides the fact that they're beautiful, vibrant cities), is the cross-pollination you get by being in touch with different cultures and industries. In the right circumstances, that benefit could greatly outweigh the value of being in a place that has bigger-name VCs and contacts. And lastly, Google's second-biggest office is in New York, so that may be the beginning of something very important there.

yamadacracy 19y ago
I agree with you on most things but differ with one point - for some reason, it's very hard to find people to take plunges, even part time, in New York. New York is very image concerned and can be vicious, professionaly and socially, if you misstep. Failure in Silicon Valley is seen as part of learning. In most other parts of the word it's seen as ... just failure. In New York it seems to be evidence that all your ancestors suck and you'll go on to become re-incarnated as a worm for all eternity. Ironically, though - I think that if you could transplant the "let's do it" mentality of SV to NY, then NY would be just as and possibly more successful. I can't for the like of me figure out why more people in NY can't find the spine to try more things. On the other hand, the life can be a bit too "vibrant" ... I know some good techie folks but they're more likely trying to go to some wine tasting at a posh lounge than coding until 1 a.m. So it definately has potential, IMO, but for some reason the fuse is wet and can't seem to spark.
pg 19y ago
Empirically the advantages of concentration are bigger than the disadvantages, and this applies as much when comparing NYC and the Bay Area as Detroit and NYC. Google's NY office doesn't signify anything in particular. They knew a lot of smart people were trapped on the east coast, e.g. by family stuff, so they established an office here. They put it in NYC because they already had an ad sales office there. I think that was a mistake, actually; Boston is a much more Googly place than NYC.
- danielha 19y ago
  The Google in Cambridge is a pretty substantial operation and I believe it's growing quite fast.

rms 19y ago

It comes down to raising money... New York's great, but it's exponentially easier for a social networking site to raise money in the Bay Area.

yamadacracy 19y ago
It depends ... NY is generally harder to raise money professionaly, but quite often easier socially and especially after-the-fact. If by exponentially faster you mean more VC firms and what not, sure. Most NY VCs are poseurs. But on the other hand, I doubt you're going to be in some SV night club or bar and start a conversation with someone your age whose father happens to have a shipping line in Greece or a construction company in Saudi Arabia or an oil company in Russia or what have you. Last time I checked nobody was flocking to SV for the party scene -- and people with money like to party.
Y2 19y ago
True - at least professionally. Plust it's hard to find people with the startup mentality in NY, which is ironic because people with the startup mentality I think would actually do well in NY, just hard to find them.
karzeem 19y ago
There are so many variables to tease apart, though. Are more companies raising money out west just because there are more good companies out there? And the fact that companies are more likely to get funded in the Bay Area doesn't necessarily mean they are better companies. It might just be that angels and VCs are looser with money out there. One really useful metric in all of this would be comparing the Bay Area's percentage of VC-backed startups that actually succeed to that of Boston and New York. That would help cut right to the long-term relevance to success that funding has in the first place. (The idea being that bad companies are unlikely to succeed even if they do get funding and that good companies are likely to get funding even if they're outside the Bay Area).
- rms 19y ago
  Some companies know in advance that their business model requires raising money. It doesn't make sense for those companies to not locate themselves in the Bay Area. Everyone else is much more flexible.

gibsonf1 19y ago

My vote is for San Francisco to become the new startup capital. Why not? :)

Y3 19y ago
Cost of living?

Y3 19y ago

Are you in New York? Do you ask from the perspective of an insider or from that of someone considering a move there?

karzeem 19y ago
Just considering. We're not tied down anywhere.