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Any attempt to alleviate the gender inequality within the industry should be applauded, not derided. The current deficit of women programmers is because of our

Any attempt to alleviate the gender inequality within the industry should be applauded, not derided. The current deficit of women programmers is because of our culture's discrimination against women who program. People in software development encouraging women to participate are simply fighting against this cultural discrimination. If you really flagged this post because you think the grant is unfair, I would advise you to rethink your philosophies.

gfodor 14y ago
We can agree that it would be good to increase gender diversity in the industry. But you are making a leap without enough evidence to say that the reason it exists is because of "our culture's discrimination against women who program."
- nosefrog 14y ago
  It is an assumption I've made because of a personal belief and a fact: I believe that women are just as qualified as men in the field of software engineering, and women are outnumbered by men 5:1 in that field [0]. There are many reasons why this might be true, but I think the one that makes the most sense to me is that our culture discriminates against women who program (and women in science and tech in general). [0] http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/programming-and-development/it-gender-gap-where-are-the-female-programmers/2386 http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/programming-and-development...
  - gfodor 14y ago
    I think its funny I'm getting downvoted because people are projecting onto what I said. Hint: there are more possible answers to the question "Why aren't there more women programmers?" other than "the industry discriminates against them" and "they are not qualified."
- achompas 14y ago
  There's an embarrassing amount of circumstantial evidence.
  - gfodor 14y ago
    There's an embarrassing amount of douchebaggery, for sure. But I'm not convinced that the reason women are misrepresented in programming is as simple as stopping a few assholes from putting slides with misogynist garbage on them at conferences, etc. If only it were so simple. I think it is rooted in deeper problems that expand well beyond the realms of our little bubble of software engineering. The same could be said of many fields that men are largely absent from as well by way of self-exclusion. To be clear I support the Hacker School/Etsy program completely but took issue with the fact that the parent claimed that it's completely obvious that the reason women have a small presence in software engineering is because of discrimination by a minority of people in our field. I think a lot more women than men simply end up not having an interest in the field due to larger societal issues with gender roles and the way we raise our children and the paths put in front of them, and this is a problem worth solving and programs like this help break those assumptions down. The fact that there are dumbasses who think because there aren't many women in the room they can act like children is a symptom that happens way late in the game. The assholes will evaporate once the deeper problems are solved.
akarpenko 14y ago
The right solution would be to get women interested in technology from an early age, not by raising the numbers artificially by creating a sexist scholarship.
- nosefrog 14y ago
  When you want to solve a problem, is it better to wait until someone else implements what you believe to be the "right" solution (assuming you don't have the resources to do it yourself, which in this case neither etsy nor hacker school do), or is it better to simply do what you can with the resources you have to try to solve it?
- jacalata 14y ago
  "The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time is today."

gfodor 14y ago

We can agree that it would be good to increase gender diversity in the industry. But you are making a leap without enough evidence to say that the reason it exists is because of "our culture's discrimination against women who program."

nosefrog 14y ago
It is an assumption I've made because of a personal belief and a fact: I believe that women are just as qualified as men in the field of software engineering, and women are outnumbered by men 5:1 in that field [0]. There are many reasons why this might be true, but I think the one that makes the most sense to me is that our culture discriminates against women who program (and women in science and tech in general). [0] http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/programming-and-development/it-gender-gap-where-are-the-female-programmers/2386 http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/programming-and-development...
- gfodor 14y ago
  I think its funny I'm getting downvoted because people are projecting onto what I said. Hint: there are more possible answers to the question "Why aren't there more women programmers?" other than "the industry discriminates against them" and "they are not qualified."
achompas 14y ago
There's an embarrassing amount of circumstantial evidence.
- gfodor 14y ago
  There's an embarrassing amount of douchebaggery, for sure. But I'm not convinced that the reason women are misrepresented in programming is as simple as stopping a few assholes from putting slides with misogynist garbage on them at conferences, etc. If only it were so simple. I think it is rooted in deeper problems that expand well beyond the realms of our little bubble of software engineering. The same could be said of many fields that men are largely absent from as well by way of self-exclusion. To be clear I support the Hacker School/Etsy program completely but took issue with the fact that the parent claimed that it's completely obvious that the reason women have a small presence in software engineering is because of discrimination by a minority of people in our field. I think a lot more women than men simply end up not having an interest in the field due to larger societal issues with gender roles and the way we raise our children and the paths put in front of them, and this is a problem worth solving and programs like this help break those assumptions down. The fact that there are dumbasses who think because there aren't many women in the room they can act like children is a symptom that happens way late in the game. The assholes will evaporate once the deeper problems are solved.

akarpenko 14y ago

The right solution would be to get women interested in technology from an early age, not by raising the numbers artificially by creating a sexist scholarship.

nosefrog 14y ago
When you want to solve a problem, is it better to wait until someone else implements what you believe to be the "right" solution (assuming you don't have the resources to do it yourself, which in this case neither etsy nor hacker school do), or is it better to simply do what you can with the resources you have to try to solve it?
jacalata 14y ago
"The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time is today."