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* I've never heard of the village pass restriction. * You can have more than one kid - you have to pay a fine though. Also, the restriction doesn't apply to et
by cglee 18y ago
* I've never heard of the village pass restriction.
* You can have more than one kid - you have to pay a fine though. Also, the restriction doesn't apply to ethnic minorities or farmers.
* You cannot organize dissenting political views. You can express yourself creatively, artistically, etc all you want. Check out Beijing's 798 district: http://www.798space.com http://www.798space.com (one of my favorite places).
* It's not an "ongoing massacre". It may be oppression, racism, discrimination, segregation, confining a people to internment or a reservation - but to describe it as an active massacre is inaccurate.
- erlanger 18y ago* Read about it. I will post some sources here ASAP. * Is that any less perverse? * The right to organize with other dissenters is critical in the fight for freedom. - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/24/AR2009032400742.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03... - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/20/AR2009032000175.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03... - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/20/AR2009032000175.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03... - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/17/AR2009031700017.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03... - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/10/AR2009031003725.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03... Those are from the past month in the Post alone. * Do you mean to say that scores of Tibetan protesters were not beaten and/or shot dead in the months leading up to the Olympics? Because that's news to me.
- deleted 18y ago[deleted]
- erlanger 18y ago> Your original post was racist, Because I totally applied my criticism to a people rather than a national government, right? Maybe you're the old-world type that equates nations with races.
- tokenadult 18y agoShall I post for you the numerous articles of people in places like Minneapolis or Denver or New York that were arrested or beaten for protesting around campaign conventions? St. Paul, really, not Minneapolis. I live in the state where both cities are. I see a lot of news video of what the "protesters" were doing, and the police response was appropriate, in my opinion. I am very able in this state to vote out a current administration (not something someone can do in China) and to speak up about my opinion on any issue.
- erlanger 18y agoThat's the real difference: You can get pissed about these injustices in America without disappearing. Government accountability is tremendously important in American culture.
- cglee 18y agoThat's the problem you're facing. You're trying to understand China from an American perspective. And it may not be your fault, maybe that's all the perspective you have at the moment. To understand the complexity of China's problems, and to try to propose a solution, you're going to have to try to understand China at a much deeper level.
- erlanger 18y agoSorry, I'm too optimistic to believe that people having "certain unalienable rights" is an American phenomenon. And I didn't even bring other important notions, such as the freedom of religion, into the fold: http://www.cfr.org/publication/16272/religion_in_china.html#2 http://www.cfr.org/publication/16272/religion_in_china.html#...
- deleted 18y ago[deleted]
- cglee 18y agoThe best line I've heard wrt giving Westerners a perspective to understanding China is this (paraphrasing): Americans demand change when they feel something isn't right. They want to see change happen and want it immediately - or, at the least, every four years. It's a young country, barely 250 years old, and has reinvented itself many times over, in short durations, and has grown and evolved so much so quickly. Because Americans can change and remake itself so quickly, they also demand that of others. America is like the hare. China, on the other hand, is like the turtle. It's a 5,000 year old civilization, moving slowly and gradually, at its own pace, regardless of what others are doing. To the Chinese, the last 20 years has been probably the most progressive 20 years in China's history. To China, it is moving at lightening pace. Compared to China 10, 15, 20 years ago, it has come a long long way. And it will continue to progress, but at its own turtle's pace.
- cglee 18y agoI don't want to play this game. All I'm trying to say is it doesn't seem like you understand China well, and should reserve criticism until you have some basic understanding of her problems.
- jhancock 18y agoagreed..I'm not interested in saying much more either. If this were any other forum, I wouldn't bother replying to erlanger's statements.
- menloparkbum 18y agoI've never heard of the village pass restriction. He's probably referring to the hukou system. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hukou_system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hukou_system
- erlanger 18y agoThanks, I've long wondered about the specific name for the system. That article is a very interesting read, and the comparisons to Apartheid are apt.
- cglee 18y agoI'm well aware of the HuKuo system (most of my extended family live in China). It doesn't restrict movements at all, and you can move to any city you wish for work, vacation, wandering, whatever. It's just a zip code system to track where people live. I don't know the exact process, but you can have your HuKuo changed if you want to move (of course, you have to go through the requisite paperwork). There are a lot of injustices in China to be angry about, but I don't think this is one of them.