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In terms of economic freedom, China has the edge. The cardinal rule is, "you cannot write, read, or do anything that threatens the legitimacy of the party." T

In terms of economic freedom, China has the edge. The cardinal rule is, "you cannot write, read, or do anything that threatens the legitimacy of the party." That kind of limit on free speech certainly does not appeal to me, but I don't think it in anyway cripples the economy.

tokenadult 18y ago
I'm not sure I agree that China actually offers more economic freedom to most of its people than America does. Most people in China don't even have a formal legal right to move their residence to a new town. The cardinal rule is, "you cannot write, read, or do anything that threatens the legitimacy of the party." That kind of limit on free speech certainly does not appeal to me, but I don't think it in anyway cripples the economy. But this I very specifically disagree with. The ruling party of China intervenes in the economy in very many ways in China, and leaving criticism of the party off-limits in public discourse means that sound discussion of economic policy at a deep and detailed level can't happen. China has had a bubble economy over the last decade or more, but it's unclear this year how much of the bubble is popping, because the state-controlled media are not engaging in vigorous reporting about what is really happening to real estate projects invested in by local governments or many other government-intertwined economic projects. An economy thrives better with more transparency.
- jhancock 18y ago
  I agree with you. But "sound discussion of economic policy at a deep and detailed level" does actually happen. People do openly talk about such things in China. The censorship is not that complete. Where there are pain points, you will find people shouting about it. You are correct that local media does not disclose the whole truth. But that's not too different than U.S. mainstream media. "An economy thrives better with more transparency." agreed!!!
- bokonist 18y ago
  Both good points. Determining whether the U.S. or China has more economic freedom is difficult, because their ways of restricting freedom are so different. discourse means that sound discussion of economic policy at a deep and detailed level can't happen. It definitely happens among the elites, I once attended a workshop in Guangzhou about problems in urban planning. You can criticize the government's actions, you just cannot question its legitimacy. But even then you probably won't be jailed. Being an open supporter of democracy in China is like being an open racist in the U.S. You probably won't get jailed, but you will find your career not going so well. It is true you see far less policy debate in the popular press, but personally I'd have to be convinced that there is any link between the amount of popular debate over a certain issue and the quality of the eventual solution. Lack of transparency is always definitely an economic hindrance, no question there. It's a bad problem both in China and the U.S..

tokenadult 18y ago

I'm not sure I agree that China actually offers more economic freedom to most of its people than America does. Most people in China don't even have a formal legal right to move their residence to a new town. The cardinal rule is, "you cannot write, read, or do anything that threatens the legitimacy of the party." That kind of limit on free speech certainly does not appeal to me, but I don't think it in anyway cripples the economy. But this I very specifically disagree with. The ruling party of China intervenes in the economy in very many ways in China, and leaving criticism of the party off-limits in public discourse means that sound discussion of economic policy at a deep and detailed level can't happen. China has had a bubble economy over the last decade or more, but it's unclear this year how much of the bubble is popping, because the state-controlled media are not engaging in vigorous reporting about what is really happening to real estate projects invested in by local governments or many other government-intertwined economic projects. An economy thrives better with more transparency.

jhancock 18y ago
I agree with you. But "sound discussion of economic policy at a deep and detailed level" does actually happen. People do openly talk about such things in China. The censorship is not that complete. Where there are pain points, you will find people shouting about it. You are correct that local media does not disclose the whole truth. But that's not too different than U.S. mainstream media. "An economy thrives better with more transparency." agreed!!!
bokonist 18y ago
Both good points. Determining whether the U.S. or China has more economic freedom is difficult, because their ways of restricting freedom are so different. discourse means that sound discussion of economic policy at a deep and detailed level can't happen. It definitely happens among the elites, I once attended a workshop in Guangzhou about problems in urban planning. You can criticize the government's actions, you just cannot question its legitimacy. But even then you probably won't be jailed. Being an open supporter of democracy in China is like being an open racist in the U.S. You probably won't get jailed, but you will find your career not going so well. It is true you see far less policy debate in the popular press, but personally I'd have to be convinced that there is any link between the amount of popular debate over a certain issue and the quality of the eventual solution. Lack of transparency is always definitely an economic hindrance, no question there. It's a bad problem both in China and the U.S..