> When do you think debian strives to hard to be perfect? The apt repo format with pools and the indexes, it's a nice idea, I see how pools can save space, but

> When do you think debian strives to hard to be perfect? The apt repo format with pools and the indexes, it's a nice idea, I see how pools can save space, but ultimately they add complexity with little in return. The deb control files, all broken up instead of a single spec file, I understand the urge to modularize, but ultimately is makes it harder to work with while adding little value. What they do with apache and nginx with mods-available, mods-enabled, sites-available, sites-enabled. Again, I understand how that could seem better, more modular, easier to manage, but ultimately in my experience it's just a pain to deal with -- they tried too hard. > I am not sure what "half-backed" means but it does not matter because you are talking about Ubuntu and not Debian. Half-baked means unfinished or not well thought out. I think Ubuntu gets this because of their strict 6 month release cycle (not the "when it's done" attitude Debian and Red Hat traditionally have). Also they seem to lack attention to detail when it comes to server stuff. No, Debian stable is not half-baked. But the OP specifically asked about "Debian-derived Linux distributions" so I included something Ubuntu specific. > Do you think debian comes with poor documentation for new/changed features? While I prefer Red Hat/Fedora [online] documentation, no I don't think Debian documentation is poor. Debian actually updates man pages when they make changes, unlike Ubuntu. The reason I like Red Hat documentation better is that it has a more focused voice, it comes across as official and clear. Debian documentation often comes across as personal opinions, and appears more scattered to me. > iptables-persistent is installed on 1.17% of machines that supply popcon data[1]. Lets face it compared to pf iptables sucks, but it sucks a lot less when you use shorewall. Ah, yes pf's syntax and features put netfilter/iptables to shame. I would much rather run pf as a network [gateway] firewall. But I also think you should have a host firewall, they are really needed in the cloud, so iptables it is. According to the popularity contest only 2.49% have shorewall, and 1.87% have ufw. I'm guessing a lot of people rolled there own with shell scripts. Which is another gripe I have. There is no default persistent firewall, to me that is crazy. iptables-persistent doesn't even support IPv6 in squeeze (current stable). It makes me feel like Debian lacks direction, no one cares enough to make it happen, there's no project manager insisting it get done because customers want it, people just do what they want. I don't mean to pick on Debian, Debian is great, I just wish they'd do some things more like Red Hat :)