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My daughter has told me a few times that she might like to program like me but was worried that it was a "boy thing". I tell her that the computer can't tell y
by noonespecial 14y ago
My daughter has told me a few times that she might like to program like me but was worried that it was a "boy thing".
I tell her that the computer can't tell you're a girl.
- mindcrime 14y agoSo here's the question: How old is your daughter? And where do you suppose she got the idea that programming is "a boy thing"? I suspect that the answers to these questions is a good lead to understanding why women are under-represented among programmers / techies.
- noonespecial 14y agoThat actually is the question I've been struggling with. She's only 7 and I've tried to keep her quite insulated from that kind of idea but it seems to just bleed in from all over the place. Since I've tuned out powerless to stop the bias from getting in, I've started to really think about the best way to help her rise above it.
- tolmasky 14y agoAre you her father? (As opposed to mother? Can't tell from the comment). If so, does her mother not program (and maybe find it boring?) Could it be as simple as "programming is a boys thing because that's what daddy does"?
- vxNsr 14y agoI would answer pop culture, if she's watched any Disney show or movie ever, it immediately shows her exactly what is "acceptable" for a girl to do (Grrr, I hate Disney and that is gonna be the one channel I will never let my children watch, not to say there aren't worse channels but Disney is consistently bad). Someone (in the HN community) should do an in-depth blog post about how pop culture screws up our children's perceptions of what is appropriate and acceptable for them to reach for.
- duaneb 14y agoYou should watch Disney movies with your kid and discuss them. Ignorance won't stop anything.
- jlgreco 14y agoWhy call out Disney for such special treatment. Should he do similar with the Rambo series? Not watching Disney movies seems like a perfectly reasonable response to the content of Disney movies. There is no shortage of other things to watch.
- mpyne 14y agoMuch like the discussion about sex/abstinence, there's really no way to avoid Disney (or violent media) completely as a parent. Even if you don't show it to your kid they'll see it at school or somewhere else. So if you want your kid to get something specific out of a Disney movie other than the intended message, it's probably better to ensure they see it with you while you're there to explain it appropriately.
- duaneb 14y agoNot watching Disney movies is cultural/social death. Don't do that to your kid. I'm all for good role models. But bad models are useful to, so the kid knows it's bad behavior, especially when they are likely to run into that culture anyway (as is the case with role models). All the kid will see is that you won't allow them to see what the rest of America has. Any moral message will be secondary. So you might as well ensure that they learn the lessons correctly the first time. And no, they don't need to see Rambo, but Rambo isn't likely to be relevant to their lives if we're discussing Disney movies. I strongly believe things like Disney are crucial for kids. -I'm barely recovering from a childhood of only PBS allowed and I feel entirely disconnected from my generation whenever we talk about culture before 2003. All I remember is from watching The News Hour about Bill Clinton having sex and bombing places and reading about nsync on the back of juice boxes. Don't do that, it's not healthy.
- Tycho 14y ago
- RougeFemme 14y agoI think that's the solution. . .helping her rise above the bias. The bias will always be there - or at least for the next few generations. At 7, I wouldn't necessarily address the biases and where they come from - just teach her to rise above them. It's a good life lesson, anyway. . .not to worry about what others think, just do what you want (as long as there is nothing unethical or illegal about it, obviously.) When she's older, you can acknowledge that the biase exists and give her more concrete examples of how to handle it going forward.
- sliverstorm 14y agoIf I had to take a stab in the dark, I would guess she is: 1) Familiar with the image of a "geek" (how could you possibly not be?) 2) Intelligent enough to notice that the image of a geek is always of a male 3) Also intelligent enough to connect the dots between "programming" and "geek" based on what she knows of geeks. Children are often a lot sharper than we give them credit. It doesn't need to be explicit; they will pick up on subtle things like omissions, and they will connect the dots.
- jimzvz 14y agoWhy immediately assume that the idea comes from environmental factors?
- snowwrestler 14y agoWhere else do ideas come from?
- jimzvz 14y agoWell perhaps, at the moment, she is only interested in it because it is what you do and is using the argument that it is a boy's thing to convey that to you.
- newnewnew 14y agoDo what cultural dissidents have been doing for decades - home school.
- demian 14y agoI see it as a systemic problem. There isn't one root cause, but a lot of factors. For example, the "hacker" archetype really rooted in people's minds is mostly a product of movies, TV and books. At the same time, those movies, TVs and books draw inspiration from each other, and new ones are made by people influenced by them. Its a mess of feedback loops. In the same messy feedback-loopy kind of way, they afect how ALL software engineers are represented in media, how other characters react and interact with them, and all the conclusions people might get from them (most classic e.g.: programmer = awkward nerd, so If i'm neither awkward nor a "nerd" then I shouldn't be a programmer)
- Evenjos 14y agoI was saddened when LEGO started branding their toy blocks for girls (big, dumb pink blocks) and for boys (all the cool blocks and kits). The gender division is introduced to kids very young.