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Thank you HN, sorry HN

• RKoutnik 14y ago
  As another hacker who has suffered from depression, this is an excellent idea. I know that I'd much rather talk to someone who understands my peculiar mindset instead of yet another PhD charging too much an hour.
  • dandrews 14y ago
    No no no, OP doesn't have the resources... yet. You're supposed to put on your own oxygen mask before assisting others - there's a reason for that.
    • emhart 14y ago
      That's such a great analogy. And is absolutely correct. Depressives helping depressives is a great idea on its face, but falls down quickly when you haven't given yourself the opportunity for actual, serious stability before reaching out your own hand. The process of becoming healthy becomes much more complicated and difficult if you are trying to balance your own mental welfare with the welfare of others. I was once asked what I was doing to live up to a certain person's life with whom I was associated. I said I was doing what I could for myself today so that I could do anything at all for others in the future.
      • jjsz 14y ago
        I couldn't keep up with it but http://lift.do/ http://lift.do/ has a habit streak and motivation by seeing other people keeping on tasks. Depression comes from not keeping up on tasks and losing your streak. That's when you start questioning yourself and the cycle keeps happening. There is definitely a niche need for a mentoring / motivational network for depressed people. This whole thread, and your last one, plus the momentum that came with them is proof.
        • sebii 14y ago
          "Depression comes from not keeping up on tasks and losing your streak." I think you mixed up cause and effect. Depression mostly leads to not keeping up with what you're doing, which is the starting point of a downward spiral. Depression isn't "solved" by motivation. Depression is complex, but most times a common source is a overwhelming emotional event, which is re-felt in every down turn.
• beaumartinez 14y ago
  > I would love to give something back How about telling us what helped you the most? You mention you "changed your lifestyle"—what things did you change?
• smoyer 14y ago
  "I would love to give something back to you" You might want to help depressed hackers, but in the mean-time I'd suggest you can give far more than you'd guess. Each day, find someone you can "help" ... hold the door for someone with full arms, smile at someone who's scowling or tutor someone who's having a hard time understanding something you know well. You'll certainly brighten their day, but you'll also find the satisfaction in being helpful (with no expectation of any compensation) will improve your mood too. Don't believe me? Try it for 30 days ... and if at some point you believe your life isn't worth living right now, think of what the people you've helped would say about your life.
  • pedalpete 14y ago
    Furthermore, your vocal call for help and openness toward depression may have helped many who are suffering in silence and have now gone to seek help.
• njloof 14y ago
  Resources for depressed hackers are pretty poor. You hear of burnout, chronic fatigue, moving someplace isolated -- but rarely the "d-word" in hacker circles. Offering your story is a great start. There's a "Geeks and Depression" list you may be interested in.
  • WalterGR 14y ago
    Resources for depressed hackers are pretty poor. For hackers suffering from depression, please don't resist getting help because you can't find resources specifically for hackers. In the case of support groups, it's nice to be with people who share a similar background as you. But I think you'll find that the shared experience with depression will massively overcome what shared experience you lack on the job or as a hobby. Please get help. It's not an exaggeration to say it could be the difference between life and death. The path downward is often a long, gentle slope. While you're on it, it feels like flat ground. You don't realize you've hit the lowest elevation until... well, you just stop walking.
• anx 14y ago
  HackersHelp I'm in! I really love the Idea! A good starting point for these sorts of things has always been founding an IRC-channel ;)
• j45 14y ago
  I'm not sure if you owe anyone anything. Ultimately the right kind of people lend their voice to supporting someone because someone did it for them. if you paid them back somehow, would it be the same as taking the time to support someone else in your future when you come across a situation. Being given to or cared for unimaginably often makes us feel like sharing it, be it giving it back, or doing it for others. Whatever you do, know that there's probably more than a few people that would probably be happiest if you join them in being a giver and keeping kindness and goodness fashionable. In other words your gratitude is not a debt to repay, but maybe another chance to participate in our universal responsibility for our human family by helping others not feel alone, and maybe a little more understood.
• deleted 14y ago
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  • schrodinger 14y ago
    I think this is a fine place for these issues now, as they're important to the community and the reaction has been positive. It will help drive awareness and encourage others to seek help. Unless of course he successfully creates a help net work, then it might be time to fork off to there :)
    • deleted 14y ago
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      • pmb 14y ago
        Although it sounds like you are joking, I just want to note that this can be quite a dangerous approach. Depression isn't just "very sad, needs help to cheer up". Depression is a neurochemical problem possibly caused by or exacerbated by environmental effects. Amateur psychology and "the power of positive thinking" are the equivalent of homeopathy. They work for some, but not reliably better than the placebo effect. Depressed people need head doctors in much the same way that physically injured people need body doctors. For mild cases "walk it off" might work (in both head- and body- problems), but depression is more like a broken bone than it is like a mildly sprained ankle.
• joshuamcclure 14y ago
  I went through the same thing. A support group works. What helps me the most is vitamins, water and exercise. I also stopped spiking caffeine (I take a time release capsule) and stopped drinking alcohol. Vitamins (every morning with food): Vitamin C 1000mg (energy and health) B-12 3000mcg (happy energy) Magnesium 400mg (focus and mood moderation) Fish Oil - EPA 120mg + DHA 900mg (memory + mood moderation) L-Carnitine 200mg (precursor for acetylcholine neurotransmitter) Time release caffeine (8 hours of stable energy with no spikes) This has helped me completely conquer my mood swings (depression as well as ADD) and has made a huge impact on my enjoyment of life.
  • antinescience 14y ago
    Yes, yes, yes a thousand times to stop drinking alcohol. My moods leveled out substantially once I stopped drinking. Granted, I have what is traditionally known as a problem with alcohol so YMMV, but from personal experience it's been the best decision I've made by far. (I could go on for paragraphs about alcohol and programming culture, but I'll shelve the off topic proselytizing for later.) More important than anything else, if you're having depression issues, it's important to remember that you can always change your story. You're not locked into anything (well, most things) in your life. True, some things are harder to shed than others, but if you're depressed enough where it affects you on a monumental, daily basis, just remember you can change it. Stop engaging in activities that make you feel like shit. Cut acquaintances (even family) out of your life that bring you down. Drop out of life for awhile if you need to - the people who truly care about you will understand. Anything is ultimately better than the alternatives of a quick demise or a bleak existence, both for you (primarily) and the people around you. It gets better is an overused cliche, but it holds some merit. You can make it better. (on a side note, time release caffeine sounds incredible.)
• orangethirty 14y ago
  I'm proud of you.
• sirspazzolot 14y ago
  I think a support network for depressed hackers is a great idea, and I'd love to help out in some way (though I'm sort of lacking in technical skill). That said, I also agree with what dandrews says: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5348693 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5348693 Don't overexert yourself trying to help. If you think helping others will help you, then sure, go right ahead! But please be focused on your own recovery. We'll need a stable leader if we want to do this right ;)
• larrys 14y ago
  "I would love to give something back to you but I am not sure what that should be." I would worry about creating an obligation that would require you to have anxiety and other issues by not being able to fulfill the obligation. While it's nice and might make you feel good to give back it's hard to believe that it wouldn't be better to simply try to get yourself stronger without the obligation of doing for others. For now. After all even the simple act of "replying to all that wrote" appears to be more than you can handle right now. I'm sure some of those people would want to be acknowledged for taking the time to write.
  • incongruity 14y ago
    Heck, if an avalanche of correspondence fell on any of us, depressed or not, it may well be overwhelming beyond the point of being able to answer it all! In any case, I would add that the set of actions that matter and make a difference is not a perfect subset of the actions that feel like they're important. That is to say, you never know when something that seems like a small act on your part can change someone else's day... So, to that end, though I missed the OP's original post, I'd challenge him or her to simply believe in some purpose – find something every morning that makes it worth interacting with others (and try to do so in a generous way) and you're likely to make a real impact, even if you're never aware of it.
  • chevas 14y ago
    Serving others is one of the best ways to get one's mind off oneself and combat depression. I would actually exhort you to commit to doing some kind of service / help for someone else. Start small. Thank you for sharing your story.
    • joelhaus 14y ago
      Want to echo this and also recommend reading the book, How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie, for some tactical advice on how to 'serve' others in small ways. Good luck!
• deleted 14y ago
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• neogodless 14y ago
  While the HN crowd have lots of things in common, especially those things that make us human, what things are you especially proud of, strengths that you feel are somewhat unique to you, the things you really enjoy doing and the kinds of problems you prefer tackling?
• brador 14y ago
  Today you, tomorrow me. Don't worry about it.
• Beltiras 14y ago
  As someone that you corresponded with a bit I am glad to hear you got help and got your problems sorted. I want to share a bit why I wanted to help with the rest of HN. I throughout my life thought many ailments were my "problem", ranging from simple depression, bipolar, alcoholism, drug dependancy and tried the methods successful for each one to "cure me" to no avail. A couple of years ago however a psychologist gave me his opinion of ADD. Just simply knowing what it was has helped me enormously. It gave me a set of tools to fight the issue. It turns out that all of those other things were epiphenomena of the ADD, parts of the vicious cycle of the upswing when you start seeing the light, elation with a new achieved high you get from some measure of success, followed by the eventual downfall and depression when you see that you are still not making headway. This cycle would repeat and still affects me a bit. In my case what helped was a stricter regiment of food supplements (especially D, Omega, B6, B12 and calcium) and using Mountain Dew (yes, I know it's a horrid substance) to elevate myself in the afternoon. This coupled with Mindfulness meditation allows me to stay relatively productive. I'm in the process of getting medication for ADD after reading Flower for Algernon and realizing that refusing medication is akin to Charlie refusing the operation (read the book if you haven't, it's remarkably well written). Before this realization and change in behavior I was flunking out of CompSci @ University. After that change I managed a whole year of full coursework and graduation. I managed to get a job and am managing to achieve the goals we (me and my boss) set for my work. My point is: You might think you have a specific problem but in reality you might have another problem, but the symptom is what you notice. ADD should really have been obvious when you look @ my life a certain way (having studied everything from medicine to economics to accounting to philosophy and finally CompSci). I had seen many professionals and only one of them hit the proper diagnosis. The funny thing was once I knew the problem, I had tons of tools I had learned about elsewhere to combat it and the only reason I think he was right is that the methods worked! One of the things that keep me focused is helping others. It kinda gives me a good reason to maintain myself in fit spiritual condition (agnostic, spiritual here simply means connected with my fellow man). A friend of mine is graduating this spring and he tells me he wouldn't be, if I weren't helping him with his maths. Once he graduates, I need to find someone else to help. It gives me strength to know that the help I received, I can pay forward. I'm glad far_far_away is doing that too.
  • 14y ago
• rikacomet 14y ago
  Giving up is easy, Continuing is Hard, is what most people think, but though the first part is true, Continuing in face of mounting odds is easy, if you just follow a good health regime, and keep yourself surrounded by people you can talk to and be with at ease. Every life is worth living, you just need to ask for help at the right place, and people will help you see how important your life is. Yes, their can be a separate tag SAVE@HN for threads from HN users in distress, If it even helps save 1 life, it would be damn worth it!
• lefinita 14y ago
  Just make sure you have a good life, maybe it's the best thing you can give back. A gratitude for yourself.
• danielweber 14y ago
  The best thing you can do is take care of yourself. Seriously. The first rule of search-and-rescue is "don't be a victim." Make sure you are taking good care of you.
• kposehn 14y ago
  Your life is most definitely worth living, even though it may not feel like it. You can rest assured of that.
• scottcha 14y ago
  Focus on getting better right now. You have your life in front of you and once you beat this you will have ample opportunity to pay back to the larger community. Please accept that you don't own anyone anything right now and the best you can do it focus on what you need to get better. Its ok to feel the kindness of others when you are in need. Also, thanks for being so open. Continuing that openness and building a support group for yourself through that is something which helped me through a similar situation.
• iterationx 14y ago
  Volunteer somewhere like a soup kitchen or something like that on our behalf. Give love and you will feel love.
• ibudiallo 14y ago
  A thank you letter is not homework, and has no due date. If you feel like you have to reply to every body remember that you are not on a schedule. Take your time. You are the one in need of help.
• vellum 14y ago
  I don't think you should feel obligated to give back. Just focus on your recovery. Maybe the next time a "depressed hacker" thread pops up, post your own experiences and what worked for you.
• giis 14y ago
  Very glad to hear, you are getting better now :)
• ElliotH 14y ago
  I'm glad the world seems like a brighter place now. I didn't see your original request, but I know some of that feeling. Keep with it. Picking yourself up, and letting others pick you up is something to be really proud of.
• triplesec 14y ago
  The best way to give back might be to collate and share with us the advice you received (private issues anonymised), so that we and our friends who may need it can also benefit. Here on ths thread, or on its own thread, but linked here. Good luck and seriously thank you for having the courage to ask the question! There will be many silent people on this board who still don't have that courage, but are longing for some help.
• kmfrk 14y ago
  You are already helping by telling your story here. People who feel the same way you did now have a story of someone in their situation overcoming their depression. Your example is already helping others. As such, anyone who feels the same way should feel free to comment here to reach out or just vent.
• unimpressive 14y ago
  Please, if I was motivated by the expectation of something in return I wouldn't have mailed you. If you are going to do something, start small, theres nothing worse than creating a huge obligation to yourself that you can't fulfill.
• deleted 14y ago
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• S4M 14y ago
  Hi! I am really glad to read this. I remember your first post, and wanted to send you an email, but felt that I didn't have much to say and finally I didn't send it. If you want to give something back, I would suggest to post what you did to beat your depression, it will probably help someone who goes through a similar situation.
• merinid 14y ago
  Hi there - I am happy to see you assert yourself and come back to the community with such a positive voice. Thank you for being open to the attention people have given you. Don't worry about giving back, but look forward to it. The idea will come to you and you will know immediately that it is the right one. Believe in yourself, and keep f*ing hacking.
• SkyMarshal 14y ago
  >Found a help network for hackers, somehow improve the current situation for crisis/suicide chats or something like that. So what do you think would improve the current situation of (depressed/suicidal) hackers. I think one of the biggest problems here is that people with suicidal level depression lose all perspective and see the world as void of any possibility of escaping whatever box they feel trapped in. No way out or through, no light at the end of the tunnel, just trapped in a particular emotional state and perception of things. No way forward in life. One of the best ways to help people through that is for those who have been through it to simply share, in detail, their own experience with it, how and why they felt trapped at the time, and how they made it through, and what ultimately solved it for them. Simply demonstrate the possibility, with as much concrete detail as possible (which hackers particularly require), that there is a way through (a hack, even), that depression grossly skews your perspective of the world, and things are not as bad as they appear (especially for anyone living in a first world country and among the lucky few fluent in the empowering languages of technology). Other options would be physically changing people's perspective by organizing some sort of multi-month aid mission to an impoverished country (maybe hook up with Engineers or Doctors Without Borders). Or alternatively a grueling, endorphin-generating Outward Bound type excursion. Anything to jolt people out of their current perspective of their relatively limited existence. Finally, if it helps you could treat this whole idea as a startup, solving the particular problem of hacker depression. Use lean startup methodology, your hacker problem solving skills and mentality, look for hacks nobody has found yet. Document and blog it all, etc. Who knows where it might lead, but there's certainly an awareness of the problem thanks to high profile hacker suicides lately, and lots of people probably willing to help.
• richardlblair 14y ago
  Getting back in touch with the community to update us on your progress is more than enough. It's great to hear that you have switched doctors, meds, and changed your life style. It's even better to hear you are feeling better. Even improvement that seems marginal are land slide accomplishments. It's a sign that you are on your way, you can see the light, and I hope it gives you hope. It surely gives me hope. What I don't think you realize is that you have already done so much. That day your story hit the front page the community came together to support one of our own, you. This was huge. What's more is it brought depression to the front of our minds. On that day a few people may have hugged their wives a little tighter, asked their teenages how they have been doing... and actually listen. Not to mention the dozens of people who are also battling depression that would have acted on the advice given to you. You've done so much, and you are doing so great. You have helped people with your story... even though they may not come forward and say it, I guarantee you did. I can tell you that your story restored my faith in this community, which so often gets caught up in some pretty silly arguments. For this, I thank you. You've done so much, you've done so great, and you owe us nothing. Just focus on getting better, and hold onto this passion you seem to have for helping people who are in situations similar to yours. It will come in handy... I could write forever, so I'm going to stop now.. but just one last thing. The world needs more people like you, not less. Hang in there.
• cojourneo 14y ago
  First, let me say that I am so happy that the OP is doing better. We'd love to join forces with the OP (and anyone else) to "found a help network for hackers." We actually have online discussion already planned on March 20 to begin this process: http://workshops.cojourneo.com/workshops/Surviving-the-Startup-Life-The-Toll-of-Merging-Identity-and-Work-45 http://workshops.cojourneo.com/workshops/Surviving-the-Start... It features two "legends" who are uniquely experienced to guide these efforts: Parker J. Palmer & Jerry Colonna. Everyone is invited. I'd love for the OP or anyone else to contact me at kevin@cojourneo.com if you'd like to join forces. We can make a difference together.
• logn 14y ago
  "I would not say that my life is worth living right now" One day it will be, that is sure. Keep fighting.
  • logn 14y ago
    OP, I should add that that's your sickness talking. You will beat that. It's like saying you feel cold when you have a fever: just a normal symptom of a normal illness, and like a fever it's life threatening.
• neilk 14y ago
  Put your own oxygen mask on before helping others.
  • avdd_ 14y ago
    This. The best way to reciprocate is to commit to being the best "you" you can be. Good things will flow naturally from that.
• jimmychu0807 14y ago
  I think you are not obligated to return back the favor to "this" community, per se. Continue live the life everyday with gratitude and love, (and remember to create something great :) ). You can return the favor by caring the people around you, those who need your help, and continue to pass on the message of love and caring. In fact, in this world, I think somehow we are all connected. Even you in Germany and I in HK and we have never met. But like now, I am communicating with you. And hopefully thru these random and small actions everyday, we can continue to pass on the positive energy and influences to people around us. Take care!
• el_don_almighty 14y ago
  http://bluehackers.org/ http://bluehackers.org/ Has anyone looked into this org? Seems like a good resource for us
• teja1990 14y ago
  My respect for the community just grows day after day! And, I'm happy that you feel better now, I'm sure there are hundreds of thousands who are touched by your story. Your story certainly helps them believe that it is possible to get out of depression and be happy.
• xijuan 14y ago
  I am one of the people who has emailed you. I am glad to hear your reply here!!! And I am glad to hear that you did get help. I understand how you feel..I really do...
• nfriedly 14y ago
  I'm not sure how to tell you how to give back but I have a couple of suggestions that might help you figure it out on your own: Love Does by Bob Goff - http://bobgoff.com/love-does/ http://bobgoff.com/love-does/ A Million Miles in a Thousand Years by Donald Miller - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Million_Miles_in_a_Thousand_Years https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Million_Miles_in_a_Thousand_... I just recently finished both of these and found them incredibly fun and inspiring. And contrary to what some of the posts on this thread seems to be saying, I think giving is one of the best ways to improve your life.