4 ms·
This reminds me of a story that I heard last summer, http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4603414 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4603414 later confirmed h
by tokenadult 14y ago
This reminds me of a story that I heard last summer,
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4603414 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4603414
later confirmed here on HN by the hiring supervisor who observed the problem,
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4919749 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4919749
that many CS grads, even CS grads with master's degrees, can't get through a hiring screen that includes the question, "Write a loop that displays the numbers 1 to 100." Yes, something that simple is something too hard for many computer science graduates who are seeking jobs after graduation.
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why you can't suppose that a computer science degree indicates ANYTHING about a job applicant's suitability to work for you. If you want to hire a programmer who will program well for you, test the job applicant's programming skill during the hiring process by having the applicant do a sample of the work you expect the programmer to do after the programmer is hired. In general, for hiring for any job, don't worry about degrees, but be sure to ask for a work-sample test.
References for why it's a good idea to hire on the basis of work-sample testing rather than on the basis of college degrees can be found in my extensive FAQ on the subject, written for Hacker News threads about hiring.
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4613543 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4613543
LAST EDIT: As I expected, people still don't believe this story. I thought it was rather amazing when I heard it. But, with further thought, I've decided that this really is an empirical issue. It may be that some jobs have less drawing power, and attract mostly applicants who are trying to get a green card to stay in the United States. (That seems to be one thing going on in the applicant pool for the job that had the hiring process, with two computers sharing screen views over the Internet as the applicant worked on the problem, described here.) The way to find out what applicants to the job you offer can do is to put them to a work-sample test, realistic for the job you want done. I hear that FizzBuzz is still screening out a LOT of applicants for some jobs,
http://www.globalnerdy.com/2012/11/15/fizzbuzz-still-works/ http://www.globalnerdy.com/2012/11/15/fizzbuzz-still-works/
but FizzBuzz isn't a lot harder than "write a for loop," and certainly ought to be a job test that any CS graduate could pass. Try the people who next come to your workplace looking for a job, and see what they can do.
- vitno 14y agoI was just the TA for a CS class. I don't know any students, even the ones who struggle the most in the Introductory CS sequence, who can't do that. I'd say even those that failed the course can probably do that...
- jurassic 14y agoBut what level institution are you at? I can easily imagine weak second and third tier CS students who can't code their way out of a paper bag. It looks like Reddit's r/cscareerquestions/ gets questions from a lot of these type of people.
- drakeandrews 14y agoI am at a top 10 UK university. One of the people I have been assigned to work on a group project with would probably fail this question, we are end-of-second year students.
- learc83 14y agoI'm at a run of the mill state school (Georgia State--returning after a 6 year hiatus), and I can't imagine how someone who couldn't write that for loop could graduate. You could maybe pass the intro to CS class (mostly theory, not much programming), but unless you were willing to pay someone else to take tests for you there is absolutely no way you'd make it through data structures, or algorithms. Even in an intro to MATLAB class I took that was designed primarily for non CS majors (mostly physics and biology majors) that substandard level of programming would have resulted in an F.
- suresk 14y agoI have a hard time believing the claim. I've certainly seen a fair share of new graduates disappointingly lacking in certain areas (for some reason, this seems to be especially true of those who hold a Masters degree but have no work experience), but managing to graduate without knowing how to do a simple for loop is really, really hard to believe. The only way I think that would happen would be if they were fairly weak to begin with and had a ton of performance anxiety, but I'd expect that to be exceptionally rare.