4 ms·

In the grand scheme of things, this is why it's always better to defect in the simplified idea game of the prisoner's dilemma. Collaboration is rarely rewarded

In the grand scheme of things, this is why it's always better to defect in the simplified idea game of the prisoner's dilemma. Collaboration is rarely rewarded once lawyers get anywhere near an issue and opting to collaborate (i.e.: admit fault and try to fix it) more or less wins you no points in court, in the U.S. Given that each possible liability is its own case and stands on its own merits, it pretty much matches the simplest case of the prisoner's dilemma perfectly, IMHO... and so here we are. Sadly.

OGinparadise 14y ago
Collaboration is rarely rewarded once lawyers get anywhere near an issue and opting to collaborate (i.e.: admit fault and try to fix it) more or less wins you no points in court, in the U.S. Might, in part, have to do with how lawyers get compensated. A short case or a quick settlement will result in very little compensation for them. Over the course of years and decades that matters so we see everything analyzed to death. At $500+ an hour. Per lawyer.
- jacques_chester 14y ago
  The careful decomposition of problem domain into solution domain followed by recursive search of the solution domain is the lawyer's job. If they don't analyse to death, they are breaching their fiduciary duty. Don't like the legal method? Don't hire a lawyer. Try doing it yourself. See how far you get when the other guy's lawyers have done the exhaustive analysis and found the deciding element buried in a logical node on a distant subgraph you didn't even know was there to be explored.
  - OGinparadise 14y ago
    Yeah, other developed countries are all going downhill for not being overlawyered up like in US. It's a system set by lawyers for lawyers so of course you need a lawyer more than in many other countries. "Everyone" sues over everything
    - jacques_chester 14y ago
      The overlawyered US is the richest and most powerful country on Earth by a country mile.
      - OGinparadise 14y ago
        "The overlawyered US is the richest and most powerful country on Earth by a country mile." Thanks to the lawyers, no doubt. I am sure you didn't meant to say that if we pass some tort reform and limit some nonsense lawsuits (IP, malpractice etc) the country will lose it's wealth /power rank.
        jacques_chester 14y ago
        The rule of law is a key part of the mix of institutions, geography, culture and luck that have made the USA the richest country that has ever been. And with the rule of law comes lawyers. I know it's fashionable to hate lawyers, but they're a necessary profession. Law is a field in which small details can have very large consequences once the full line of reasoning is unfolded. Because of the importance of exhaustively covering all lines of argument to the maximal possible depth, lawyers are required to do so. They don't do it to bill you more. It is their legal duty. If you don't like that lawyers are required on pain of loss of income, loss of profession and potentially loss of personal liberty to give you the fullest and most complete service that they are able to give you, then you are entitled to represent yourself.
        zcrar70 14y ago
        Not all that is a part of the US is a reason for its success. Whilst the US does a lot of things well, there is always room for improvement, and some of the aspects of its legal framework is one of the areas that could benefit. The US spends 2-3 times as much on tort as other developed economies; this is clearly a problem, not an advantage. For more examples, see: http://www.economist.com/node/21541423 http://www.economist.com/node/21541423 - on attempts to reform tort law http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21571141-cheaper-legal-education-and-more-liberal-rules-would-benefit-americas-lawyersand-their http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21571141-cheaper-legal... - on how US legal education can be reformed to reduce the cost of legal counsel http://www.economist.com/node/18389167 http://www.economist.com/node/18389167 - on problems with the US' patent laws

OGinparadise 14y ago

Collaboration is rarely rewarded once lawyers get anywhere near an issue and opting to collaborate (i.e.: admit fault and try to fix it) more or less wins you no points in court, in the U.S. Might, in part, have to do with how lawyers get compensated. A short case or a quick settlement will result in very little compensation for them. Over the course of years and decades that matters so we see everything analyzed to death. At $500+ an hour. Per lawyer.

jacques_chester 14y ago
The careful decomposition of problem domain into solution domain followed by recursive search of the solution domain is the lawyer's job. If they don't analyse to death, they are breaching their fiduciary duty. Don't like the legal method? Don't hire a lawyer. Try doing it yourself. See how far you get when the other guy's lawyers have done the exhaustive analysis and found the deciding element buried in a logical node on a distant subgraph you didn't even know was there to be explored.
- OGinparadise 14y ago
  Yeah, other developed countries are all going downhill for not being overlawyered up like in US. It's a system set by lawyers for lawyers so of course you need a lawyer more than in many other countries. "Everyone" sues over everything
  - jacques_chester 14y ago
    The overlawyered US is the richest and most powerful country on Earth by a country mile.
    - OGinparadise 14y ago
      "The overlawyered US is the richest and most powerful country on Earth by a country mile." Thanks to the lawyers, no doubt. I am sure you didn't meant to say that if we pass some tort reform and limit some nonsense lawsuits (IP, malpractice etc) the country will lose it's wealth /power rank.
      - jacques_chester 14y ago
        The rule of law is a key part of the mix of institutions, geography, culture and luck that have made the USA the richest country that has ever been. And with the rule of law comes lawyers. I know it's fashionable to hate lawyers, but they're a necessary profession. Law is a field in which small details can have very large consequences once the full line of reasoning is unfolded. Because of the importance of exhaustively covering all lines of argument to the maximal possible depth, lawyers are required to do so. They don't do it to bill you more. It is their legal duty. If you don't like that lawyers are required on pain of loss of income, loss of profession and potentially loss of personal liberty to give you the fullest and most complete service that they are able to give you, then you are entitled to represent yourself.
        zcrar70 14y ago
        Not all that is a part of the US is a reason for its success. Whilst the US does a lot of things well, there is always room for improvement, and some of the aspects of its legal framework is one of the areas that could benefit. The US spends 2-3 times as much on tort as other developed economies; this is clearly a problem, not an advantage. For more examples, see: http://www.economist.com/node/21541423 http://www.economist.com/node/21541423 - on attempts to reform tort law http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21571141-cheaper-legal-education-and-more-liberal-rules-would-benefit-americas-lawyersand-their http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21571141-cheaper-legal... - on how US legal education can be reformed to reduce the cost of legal counsel http://www.economist.com/node/18389167 http://www.economist.com/node/18389167 - on problems with the US' patent laws