3 ms·

Really, permanent death? PvP corpse looting? These are profoundly user-hating mechanics and their removal is likely among the factors that made WoW successful.

by glurgh 14y ago

Really, permanent death? PvP corpse looting? These are profoundly user-hating mechanics and their removal is likely among the factors that made WoW successful. There are other ways to allow newbies to catch up and to incentivize or disincentivize players that don't rely on 'ruining your month of gameplay'.

tsumnia 14y ago
I think its not so much user-hated as difference of taste. I love the perma-death aspect of a lot of the games I've played because I get to appreciate all I've earned. That being said, to balance it our, you remove the idea of 'epic loot' (things that take months to earn). Now, the hit of death isn't game-ending. Games like Realm of the Mad God, DayZ, and Minecraft (its survival based multiplayer) make this perma-death a part of the game (though Minecraft, you keep the character). You feel defeated, but not dissuaded towards playing. The way to keep newbies is to make the gear they can earn secondary to the gameplay.
wodow 14y ago
Yes, really - but it is a matter of taste as tsumnia says in the sibling comment In Monopoly, I can go bankrupt. In Nethack, I can (and often do) die. In Super Mario Bros 1, I can lose all of my lives. In football, I can get knocked out of the Champions League (by a red card). In all of these cases, the fact that I can "lose" creates meaning - I care more about the outcome and I appreciate my achievements more. And one never loses everything - the skills stay with you. "Next time I can do better." Counterbalancing, for a different mood: works like Ocarina of Time are still great, but they sit separately - they're about the journey, not about the achievements.
- glurgh 14y ago
  I think the difference is that Monopoly, Nethack and Mario are intended to be played short term. Of course you can lose terribly in Monopoly and Nethack elevates dying to part of the gameplay. The stakes are a little different in a long-term, persistent world MMO. The Mario you died with is, for the most part, the same Mario you started with. This is not the case in an MMO. Punishing you, irrevocably, for dying in that situation is a dreadful, fun-destroying design choice. Even in platformers, it's probably telling that one of the most successful recent ones is Jon Blow's Braid where you not only don't die but you get to reverse time.
warfangle 14y ago
They wouldn't work in a carnival-lite atmosphere like WoW, because so much of your self-worth in said game is how much ph4t lewtz you have and whether or not you're at the level cap. PvP corpse looting works exceptionally well in Eve Online. You don't really have permanent death, there, though. And if a month of your gameplay gets ruined by getting instacane blapped in Eve, you're doing it wrong. Never undock with what you can't afford to replace.

by glurgh 14y ago

tsumnia 14y ago

I think its not so much user-hated as difference of taste. I love the perma-death aspect of a lot of the games I've played because I get to appreciate all I've earned. That being said, to balance it our, you remove the idea of 'epic loot' (things that take months to earn). Now, the hit of death isn't game-ending. Games like Realm of the Mad God, DayZ, and Minecraft (its survival based multiplayer) make this perma-death a part of the game (though Minecraft, you keep the character). You feel defeated, but not dissuaded towards playing. The way to keep newbies is to make the gear they can earn secondary to the gameplay.

wodow 14y ago

Yes, really - but it is a matter of taste as tsumnia says in the sibling comment In Monopoly, I can go bankrupt. In Nethack, I can (and often do) die. In Super Mario Bros 1, I can lose all of my lives. In football, I can get knocked out of the Champions League (by a red card). In all of these cases, the fact that I can "lose" creates meaning - I care more about the outcome and I appreciate my achievements more. And one never loses everything - the skills stay with you. "Next time I can do better." Counterbalancing, for a different mood: works like Ocarina of Time are still great, but they sit separately - they're about the journey, not about the achievements.

glurgh 14y ago
I think the difference is that Monopoly, Nethack and Mario are intended to be played short term. Of course you can lose terribly in Monopoly and Nethack elevates dying to part of the gameplay. The stakes are a little different in a long-term, persistent world MMO. The Mario you died with is, for the most part, the same Mario you started with. This is not the case in an MMO. Punishing you, irrevocably, for dying in that situation is a dreadful, fun-destroying design choice. Even in platformers, it's probably telling that one of the most successful recent ones is Jon Blow's Braid where you not only don't die but you get to reverse time.

warfangle 14y ago

They wouldn't work in a carnival-lite atmosphere like WoW, because so much of your self-worth in said game is how much ph4t lewtz you have and whether or not you're at the level cap. PvP corpse looting works exceptionally well in Eve Online. You don't really have permanent death, there, though. And if a month of your gameplay gets ruined by getting instacane blapped in Eve, you're doing it wrong. Never undock with what you can't afford to replace.