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I think the problem is people confuse design and aesthetics a lot. Design is inherently meant to be universal, and obviously if something is really well designe

by ameen 14y ago

I think the problem is people confuse design and aesthetics a lot. Design is inherently meant to be universal, and obviously if something is really well designed it does make the product compelling and attractive. Design cannot be copied, while aesthetics can. One can copy a single design - say an icon for example, but they cannot copy the original designer's workflow and thought-process in coming up with the final design, it is and always will be unique to each individual. A copy-cat can't come up with an entire icon-set after copying a single icon, whereas the original designer can. And I seriously doubt good designers not getting work due to scummy photocopiers grabbing up jobs. In regards to 99Designs & Fiverr: The only requirement of a client on there is that it needs to look good. And it's easy to make something look good, but does that work with their overall product? Does the product even have a design language of its own? And usually the clients are low-budget shops which even if they wanted to can't afford a decent designer. The same problem exists for developers as well - Do we see top developers crying foul about their code being re-used?

mnicole 14y ago
I totally agree with you re: design vs. aesthetics (even went on a tangent about it some weeks ago). > And I seriously doubt good designers not getting work due to scummy photocopiers grabbing up jobs. Knowing some very well-known designers, I can assure you that they are losing work. Big companies reach out to these artists about their style and how much it would cost, and after not hearing anything for a few months, these companies magically show up with a new ad campaign or line of t-shirts that looks all-too-familiar. I know a good illustrator that works for a company where he is asked to copy works created by his own friends in the industry. Not all of them are bad at what they do, which is why they are hired instead. It's slimy work, but if you're good at it and can churn them out, it makes for easy income until you can break out on your own. I would wager that a lot of designers begin their careers this way. Some eventually make their way out of it to stand on their own two feet while others get comfortable with the fact that they are essentially paid to plagiarize based on what's hot right now. > Do we see top developers crying foul about their code being re-used? This is irrelevant, but when we're talking about front-end stuff, yes. We just saw a witch hunt here the other week. But as far as the rest it's not really comparable; developers are being paid to come up with solutions that work within a set of rules we all have to adhere to given the technologies available. Designers are being paid to come up with solutions that are intentionally unique. Code is on the web as-is, and outside of not giving credit where credit should be due, there's not really much you can do about someone copying a few lines that are part of languages that can only be written effectively so many different ways. With visuals, there really are no rules; how I created my illustration may have been an entirely different way than someone who copied it did, but it doesn't matter because the end product is the same. As we progress into using SVGs for artwork instead of images, it'll be interesting to see how these worlds collide and if we begin diffing code on a large scale to find copycats rather than use tools like TinEye. While this means that remixing pieces will be easier and I hope that's the direction we go (and embrace), it still means the originals are a simple copy and paste away from being stolen in their full vector glory. Can't wait!
- ameen 14y ago
  While there are cases (like you mentioned), it's also the designer's part to hustle a bit. If one has the skills and the know-how, they can be unstoppable if they want to. Tangential to your example: I knew an illustrator who used to sketch animals in a cartoon-style, but she kept at it and eventually got hired by Rovio. But she didn't get the role just for her skills, she got it because she hustled - made an Angry Birds' fan-video and made a physical copy of it and mailed it to Rovio. Talent alone won't help in succeeding, only persistence will. Heck, talent can be acquired, persistence on the other hand, mostly isn't. Also, original art/design will always get credit if it is promoted properly.
  - mnicole 14y ago
    This has nothing to do with the hustle; this is post-hustle - that's why these companies are even reaching out to the artists directly. The ones that know exactly who they're trying to copy are the worst offenders. > Also, original art/design will always get credit if it is promoted properly. This is simply not true, which is why Twitter is often a platform used for calling people out.

by ameen 14y ago

mnicole 14y ago

I totally agree with you re: design vs. aesthetics (even went on a tangent about it some weeks ago). > And I seriously doubt good designers not getting work due to scummy photocopiers grabbing up jobs. Knowing some very well-known designers, I can assure you that they are losing work. Big companies reach out to these artists about their style and how much it would cost, and after not hearing anything for a few months, these companies magically show up with a new ad campaign or line of t-shirts that looks all-too-familiar. I know a good illustrator that works for a company where he is asked to copy works created by his own friends in the industry. Not all of them are bad at what they do, which is why they are hired instead. It's slimy work, but if you're good at it and can churn them out, it makes for easy income until you can break out on your own. I would wager that a lot of designers begin their careers this way. Some eventually make their way out of it to stand on their own two feet while others get comfortable with the fact that they are essentially paid to plagiarize based on what's hot right now. > Do we see top developers crying foul about their code being re-used? This is irrelevant, but when we're talking about front-end stuff, yes. We just saw a witch hunt here the other week. But as far as the rest it's not really comparable; developers are being paid to come up with solutions that work within a set of rules we all have to adhere to given the technologies available. Designers are being paid to come up with solutions that are intentionally unique. Code is on the web as-is, and outside of not giving credit where credit should be due, there's not really much you can do about someone copying a few lines that are part of languages that can only be written effectively so many different ways. With visuals, there really are no rules; how I created my illustration may have been an entirely different way than someone who copied it did, but it doesn't matter because the end product is the same. As we progress into using SVGs for artwork instead of images, it'll be interesting to see how these worlds collide and if we begin diffing code on a large scale to find copycats rather than use tools like TinEye. While this means that remixing pieces will be easier and I hope that's the direction we go (and embrace), it still means the originals are a simple copy and paste away from being stolen in their full vector glory. Can't wait!

ameen 14y ago
While there are cases (like you mentioned), it's also the designer's part to hustle a bit. If one has the skills and the know-how, they can be unstoppable if they want to. Tangential to your example: I knew an illustrator who used to sketch animals in a cartoon-style, but she kept at it and eventually got hired by Rovio. But she didn't get the role just for her skills, she got it because she hustled - made an Angry Birds' fan-video and made a physical copy of it and mailed it to Rovio. Talent alone won't help in succeeding, only persistence will. Heck, talent can be acquired, persistence on the other hand, mostly isn't. Also, original art/design will always get credit if it is promoted properly.
- mnicole 14y ago
  This has nothing to do with the hustle; this is post-hustle - that's why these companies are even reaching out to the artists directly. The ones that know exactly who they're trying to copy are the worst offenders. > Also, original art/design will always get credit if it is promoted properly. This is simply not true, which is why Twitter is often a platform used for calling people out.