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If you're using words like "asshole," you are definitely adding fuel to the fire. I sense you know this. In general, your argument strikes me as a "Tu Quoque:"

If you're using words like "asshole," you are definitely adding fuel to the fire. I sense you know this. In general, your argument strikes me as a "Tu Quoque:" They are bullies, so it's wrong for them to point out when we are mean. You then go on for a while about what makes them bullies, all of which is tangential to whether or not HN is mean. I caution against this kind of rhetoric. It leads to a place where the rule is, "It's ok to be mean to people we don't like, for whatever reason." Civility is a form of justice. It should be extended to those we respect but also to those we don't respect. Extending justice to the guilty is part of what makes a nation just. Extending civility to those we disrespect is what makes a community civil.

Udo 14y ago
You're right, actually. I'm going to change that single word. I hope that enables you to see my post in another light, because I don't really recognize your characterization of what I said. To make it absolutely clear: at no point did I mean to imply that LV deserve to be bullied only because they are behaving badly. I did use the "a word" to describe behavior, not personality, but I acknowledge that was misguided.
- raganwald 14y ago
  I was just about to add that it's important to distinguish between "harsh" and "mean." "Dude, you fucked up" is harsh but not mean, and while it isn't to everyone's taste, it can be a bitter pill that provides the cure. It doesn't really cross the line to mean until the intent becomes more of making someone feel bad than pushing them to get better.
  - Udo 14y ago
    I just realized I come from a country where "don't be an asshole" is a common phrase that is considered harsh but not mean ;-)
    - wuest 14y ago
      Disclaimer: I didn't read the original post, so I'm not sure where it was in your post that the word 'asshole' used to live. In my circles, at least, 'don't be an asshole' and 'you are being an asshole' is harsh-not-mean, while 'you are an asshole' is mean-maybe-harsh. The explicit declaration of state of being, rather than observation of behavior is the differentiator.

Udo 14y ago

You're right, actually. I'm going to change that single word. I hope that enables you to see my post in another light, because I don't really recognize your characterization of what I said. To make it absolutely clear: at no point did I mean to imply that LV deserve to be bullied only because they are behaving badly. I did use the "a word" to describe behavior, not personality, but I acknowledge that was misguided.

raganwald 14y ago
I was just about to add that it's important to distinguish between "harsh" and "mean." "Dude, you fucked up" is harsh but not mean, and while it isn't to everyone's taste, it can be a bitter pill that provides the cure. It doesn't really cross the line to mean until the intent becomes more of making someone feel bad than pushing them to get better.
- Udo 14y ago
  I just realized I come from a country where "don't be an asshole" is a common phrase that is considered harsh but not mean ;-)
  - wuest 14y ago
    Disclaimer: I didn't read the original post, so I'm not sure where it was in your post that the word 'asshole' used to live. In my circles, at least, 'don't be an asshole' and 'you are being an asshole' is harsh-not-mean, while 'you are an asshole' is mean-maybe-harsh. The explicit declaration of state of being, rather than observation of behavior is the differentiator.