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Flat UI, mirrored
- nailer 14y agoFrom the images we've seen all side by side this seems to be a rip of someone else's work. Nicking people stuff isn't what Hacker News is about. I've had articles I've sent hours writing and issued DMCA takedown notices, just as the same as if someone stole my code. To take down a site using your stuff, you use a DMCA takedown notice. - That doesn't mean you're abusing the DMCA - That doesn't mean that the party that nicked your stuff is in the right. UPDATE: to those discussing individual works, the issue is that the icons are not individually similar but rather that the whole set copies design elements from the other. If FlatUI has picked more sources to be inspired from, they'd be in a better position.
- c0mpute 14y ago>> From the images we've seen all side by side this seems to be a rip of someone else's work. I really doubt that is the sentiment here on HN (at least). Check: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5342360 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5342360 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5331766 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5331766 IMO, what Layervault did was wrong in issuing a DMCA for what "they" perceive as 3 images that look similar.
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- Retric 14y agoYour assuming someone nicked your stuff. With millions of sites out there are a lot of layouts, icons, and whatnot that look similar that are not in fact copy's. Worse designers are rarely the type of people that think of the (millions) ^ 2 possibilities. Honestly, unless your talking about a large file with a lot of entropy your probably in the wrong sending a DMCA take-down request.
- variousbagels 14y ago>Your assuming someone nicked your stuff you're >Honestly, unless your talking about a large file with a lot of entropy your probably you're, you're
- etchalon 14y ago"Worse designers are rarely the type of people that think of the (millions) ^ 2 possibilities." Yes. Clearly designers are incapable of original thinking. Generalizations are fun!
- Retric 14y agoYou misunderstand, many people assume when looking at rare events you need to consider the direct odds but forget about the false positive rate. Which is really more the preview of drug trials than design schools.
- ceejayoz 14y ago> From the images we've seen all side by side this seems to be a rip of someone else's work. From the images I've seen side by side, it's very clearly not.
- peejaybee 14y agosigh Not this again. From the images we've seen side by side, it is not a copy of someone else's work. The artwork is not identical, and is not similar enough that you have to say "they just took a copy of the artwork and altered it a little bit." That's the standard that needs to be met for the DMCA -- not "he made icons that are similar to mine," but "he downloaded my icons and used them as his own."
- C1D 14y ago>From the images we've seen all side by side this seems to be a rip of someone else's work. C'om on man, We've all seen the images side by side and they are definitely not ripped off. Unless you've got a eye sight problem you should be able to see the differences. If I drew a bracelet with round beads and you drew a bracelet with round beads does that mean I copied it from you? Of course not, If you look at the images you can see they're defiantly not ripped.
- wwwtyro 14y ago> From the images we've seen all side by side this seems to be a rip of someone else's work. Well, no. It seems to be very much not that.
- cooldeal 14y ago>I've had articles I've sent hours writing and issued DMCA takedown notices Just because something took you hours by itself doesn't mean that it's protected under copyright law. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweat_of_the_brow http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweat_of_the_brow Of course, if someone copy pasted your writing, you're entitled to protection. However, that is certainly not the case here. This is just about similar icons(some of which actually resemble other works) and colors.
- djsipe 14y agoThe current trend in web design is these ever-simpler icon designs. I can imagine there's only so many ways you can represent common icons using simple geometric shapes and (the infamous) rounded corners. LayerVault may feel they have a case, but I'm sure there's 5 other icon sets out there that could claim LayerVault is infringing on them.
- pixl97 14y agoThe simpler and less colorful we make icons, the more we'll relalize we'd made the same icons 25 years ago with windows 3.1. LV may feel like they have a case, but only because they've put shudders on and are only looking at their own work and not the entire industry they are built upon.
- robinjfisher 14y agoI'd be interested to know about the distinction between US and UK copyright here. In the UK, copyright will only vest in something if it is an "original work"[1]. Taking LayerVault's claim, there are only so many ways one can represent a "settings" option and the use of gear symbols is so common as to mean that no copyright attaches simply because it is not original. How much skill and effort was invested in thinking about what symbols to use? [1] http://www.ipo.gov.uk/types/copy/c-applies/c-original.htm http://www.ipo.gov.uk/types/copy/c-applies/c-original.htm
- ceejayoz 14y agoIt's the same here. http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-general.html#protect http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-general.html#protect "Copyright, a form of intellectual property law, protects original works of authorship..." A specific representation of gears could be copyrighted. The general concept of gears-as-icon can't be.
- lucaspiller 14y agoPerhaps more interesting is the 84 forks (other mirrors). Is GitHub going to remove them all?
- akakey 14y agocan I fork DMCA?
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- stblack 14y agohttps://github.com/github/dmca.git https://github.com/github/dmca.git
- the1 14y agoin the end, designmodo paid layervault for DMCA takedown notice for publicity. now err body's gon use flat ui. great marketing.
- ceejayoz 14y agoThat's quite the accusation. Any evidence?
- arb99 14y agoWhat is the deal with this? It was posted here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5321603 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5321603 a few days ago but that link is now dead. is this the original one on github or something?
- aviraldg 14y agoThe original was on DesignModo's Github account, but was taken down due to an unjustified DMCA takedown request from LayerVault. Github's DMCA policies prevent that from being made available again within 10 days. This version is hosted on iurevych's (the original creator of Flat UI) Github account.
- jasonwatkinspdx 14y agoIt's not github policy, it's explicitly part of the law.
- fredsted 14y agohttps://www.google.com/search?q=flatui%2Blayervault https://www.google.com/search?q=flatui%2Blayervault
- asdfaoeu 14y agoWhy not just respond to the initial dcma rather than playing a game of cat and mouse. No one is going to use it while it has dubious copyright status anyway.
- ceejayoz 14y agoThey did. https://github.com/github/dmca/blob/master/2013-03-06-LayerVault-counternotice.md https://github.com/github/dmca/blob/master/2013-03-06-LayerV... Mirroring it while Github drags their feet reenabling seems fair enough.
- peejaybee 14y agoThat's not fair to Github, IMO; service providers have next to no discretion in DMCA issues.
- subsystem 14y agoGithub per the DMCA needs to wait 10 days before reenabling it. "[...] replaces the removed material and ceases disabling access to it not less than 10, nor more than 14, business days following receipt of the counter notice, unless its designated agent first receives notice from the person who submitted the notification under subsection (c)(1)(C) that such person has filed an action seeking a court order to restrain the subscriber from engaging in infringing activity relating to the material on the service provider’s system or network."
- ceejayoz 14y agoTIL! What an odd requirement.
- asdfaoeu 14y agoWow my bad, I had assumed DMCA counter notices were instantaneous.
- MereInterest 14y agoIs there a (non-malevolent) reason for this clause? It seems to be something put in to deliberately slow down proceedings and apply a penalty to the accused regardless of what happens.
- holms 14y agoif I were you, i'd sue them, or would send some request to the right place, for taking invalid actions towards you.
- momchenr 14y agoHa, this is so baller.
- _puk 14y agoWhen I saw the story first, I half expected someone to come up with a 'whack-a-mole' script. Every time the original repo disappears, mirror it with a variant of the same name. Not condoning, and like to get you banned from Github, but this was always going to happen.
- RaphiePS 14y agoLooks like the Streisand Effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect)!
- ameen 14y agoThis whole episode has underlined a few major differences among developers and (current) designers. Developers are more open, contribute code and discuss about bettering each other. While Designers seem secretive, ego-filled and seeking pointless exclusivity. Eg: Developers: HackerNews / Github, etc Designers: DesignerNews / Dribble, Forrst, etc. Any designer that has been open about his work and process has become a legend - Dieter Rams, Johnathan Ive, etc.
- mistermumble 14y agoInteresting distinction. One related example is the sculpture in downtown Portland, Oregon, called Portlandia. The City owns the sculpture, but the artist owns the rights to any images of it, and he does not allow pictures to be taken and reproduced. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portlandia_(statue) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portlandia_(statue) Regarding Jony Ive, I disagree that he has been very open about his work and process. I think he rightly has become a legend, but it has happened without him seeking the spotlight. The spotlight has found him, instead.
- bluekeybox 14y agoPersonally I think this takedown notice is questionable to say the least (it looks to be a case of inspiration rather than blatant copying), but here is my devil's advocate opinion on design: When you say that designers seek "pointless exclusivity", it's a lot like saying that hackers spend their time doing "pointless tweaking". Exclusivity is the currency of design. When you design something, and ten million people already have crappy variations of the same design, your design has lost all of that currency.
- jamesdelaneyie 14y agoExclusivity is the currency of the mainstream western world. Graphic Design (currently and in the past) is the vehicle through which this desire for exclusivity is encapsulated and pushed to the masses. The old graphic design title of Commercial Artist rings true here. Your point on originality is lost on me also, doesn't the startup world of all places say that even if people have done an idea, that you can add value in other areas?
- alexchamberlain 14y agoNot exactly the right solution to a DMCA takedown notice...
- dutchbrit 14y agoIs this the correct thing to do? Wasn't it taken down for a reason?
- mistercow 14y agoSort of. It was taken down because LayerVault filed a DMCA notice, but you don't have to prove anything to file a DMCA notice (and yes, this is a broken system).
- dutchbrit 14y agoWell, I agree - I once filed a DMCA notice, but in that situation, the person actually copied some of my icons, instead of being deeply inspired. While I do agree there is a difference, there is a fine line - I do agree however that in this case, that the majority could easily be fixed. Even though it's not exactly a 1 on 1 copy, it's too inspired from the examples I saw, mainly being the design news icon.
- mistercow 14y agoIANAL, but I don't think that "too inspired" is really the sort of thing that is covered by the DMCA, and in any case, you can't file a notice to take down the whole project just because you think three icons are derived from your work. As for the newspaper icon, it has already been pointed out that LayerVault's version is far more similar to this icon from The Noun Project (http://thenounproject.com/noun/newspaper/ http://thenounproject.com/noun/newspaper/) than it is to the Flat UI version. The other claims I've seen are that the gears icon (not even close), the "talking head" (not even close), and the color palette (not something you can copyright). More importantly, this fork doesn't seem to contain any of those disputed icons, so I don't think there's anything improper here.
- dutchbrit 14y agoUpvote for the Noune Project part! LayerVault might of bought a Noune Project icon license however, but still, it's all too coincidental, even when you look at the colour scheme. You can't copyright a shape & colour combinations (mainly squares) however, so it does make it tougher to call something a huge 'rip'
- webmech 14y agofork it! they can't stop us all!
- pyalot2 14y agoAh the sweet sweet workings of the streisand effect. This new fork now has more forks and stars than the original ever had. How's that DMCA thing working out for you LayerVault?
- lancefisher 14y agoIt's amusing that there are 188 forks now. I expected a fork, but not from the author. I don't know that this is a good idea since it could cause a termination of his account. I think that is at github's discretion. I'd never heard of LayerVault before, but based on what I've seen of the "infringing" design which amounts to 3 similar (but different) icons, they are clearly wrong to issue the DMCA. This is what I'll remember about LayerVault. Not all press is good actually. I'm glad that @iurevych is filing a counter notice, but what is too bad, is that links from press like Smashing Magazine and CSS Tricks are not working. This will hurt FlatUI. I really hope that LayerVault drops it at this point, but if they pursue a lawsuit, I would like to see it fought.
- rogerclark 14y agodivs with border radius
- nsxwolf 14y agoSo, to see an example, I have to build it and deploy an application? I don't understand this tendency of posting links to a github page that presents no screenshots or examples.
- hunvreus 14y agoThere is a gh-pages branch, which means it's a Github page: http://iurevych.github.com/Flat-UI/ http://iurevych.github.com/Flat-UI/.
- pramodxyle 14y agoeven original bootstrap goes flat in its new rc..!
- muratmutlu 14y agoI love the drop down menu, has anyone come across any tutorials to create something similar?