5 ms·

Off topic but then I would presume that you do not know what marketing is. Marketing is not just about selling and shouldn't be. It is also about figuring what

Off topic but then I would presume that you do not know what marketing is. Marketing is not just about selling and shouldn't be. It is also about figuring what products people want and communicating it clearly to the people who build products.

abstractbill 18y ago
Isn't that market research? I used to date a market researcher - she was very touchy about the confusion between the two fields.
- daveungerer 18y ago
  I'm quite surprised that this was modded up. Market research is indeed a component of marketing. I would suggest that those who modded it up sign up for some business courses / read a book on general business management or marketing. Just as you respect business guys who take the trouble to understand technical details / are ex hackers, so too an understanding of business lingo will gain you respect in their eyes. And allows you to have more meaningful discussions. Or just read Wikipedia if in doubt: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marketing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marketing
  - abstractbill 18y ago
    Shrug, all I know is the market researcher I dated was quite clear that marketing and market research are very different things and are not subsets of each other. Then again, the wikipedia article you linked to says "The marketing literature is also infamous for re-inventing itself and its vocabulary according to the times and the culture". So who knows?
    - daveungerer 18y ago
      Ahhh, but we do know. The Wikipedia article also says: "..at the Harvard Business School in the early 1960s, suggested that the Marketing Mix contained 4 elements: product, price, place and promotion." And then: "Product: The product aspects of marketing deal with the specifications of the actual goods or services, and how it relates to the end-user's needs and wants." Market research has been a subset of marketing for over over four decades now - modern textbooks will give you the exact same information I quoted above. While I'm sure the market researcher was a lovely girl, she's no substitute for reading up on the matter.
      - andreyf 18y ago
        Last time I took a marketing class was in '03, and indeed, at least up until then, the 4 P's were still taught as the major components of marketing.
- sharpshoot 18y ago
  Marketers create demand for a product. Sales people convert demand into paid customers. Hackers build the product that is sold.
  - andreyf 18y ago
    And who decides what the product is? What about how much it costs? And who decides how to get the product from production to consumers? Without the right marketing, you'll be building the wrong product, selling it at the wrong price, and with the wrong distribution. Yes, marketing is easier with your brand new shiny web apps, but it's still just as important.
    - abstractbill 18y ago
      And who decides what the product is? Not necessarily marketing people. Often engineers make those decisions.
      - andreyf 18y ago
        No. By definition, marketers make that decision.
        daveungerer 18y ago
        Exactly. When PG says "Make something people want", what he's really saying is: as an engineer, remember to wear your marketing hat when appropriate.

abstractbill 18y ago

Isn't that market research? I used to date a market researcher - she was very touchy about the confusion between the two fields.

daveungerer 18y ago
I'm quite surprised that this was modded up. Market research is indeed a component of marketing. I would suggest that those who modded it up sign up for some business courses / read a book on general business management or marketing. Just as you respect business guys who take the trouble to understand technical details / are ex hackers, so too an understanding of business lingo will gain you respect in their eyes. And allows you to have more meaningful discussions. Or just read Wikipedia if in doubt: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marketing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marketing
- abstractbill 18y ago
  Shrug, all I know is the market researcher I dated was quite clear that marketing and market research are very different things and are not subsets of each other. Then again, the wikipedia article you linked to says "The marketing literature is also infamous for re-inventing itself and its vocabulary according to the times and the culture". So who knows?
  - daveungerer 18y ago
    Ahhh, but we do know. The Wikipedia article also says: "..at the Harvard Business School in the early 1960s, suggested that the Marketing Mix contained 4 elements: product, price, place and promotion." And then: "Product: The product aspects of marketing deal with the specifications of the actual goods or services, and how it relates to the end-user's needs and wants." Market research has been a subset of marketing for over over four decades now - modern textbooks will give you the exact same information I quoted above. While I'm sure the market researcher was a lovely girl, she's no substitute for reading up on the matter.
    - andreyf 18y ago
      Last time I took a marketing class was in '03, and indeed, at least up until then, the 4 P's were still taught as the major components of marketing.
sharpshoot 18y ago
Marketers create demand for a product. Sales people convert demand into paid customers. Hackers build the product that is sold.
- andreyf 18y ago
  And who decides what the product is? What about how much it costs? And who decides how to get the product from production to consumers? Without the right marketing, you'll be building the wrong product, selling it at the wrong price, and with the wrong distribution. Yes, marketing is easier with your brand new shiny web apps, but it's still just as important.
  - abstractbill 18y ago
    And who decides what the product is? Not necessarily marketing people. Often engineers make those decisions.
    - andreyf 18y ago
      No. By definition, marketers make that decision.
      - daveungerer 18y ago
        Exactly. When PG says "Make something people want", what he's really saying is: as an engineer, remember to wear your marketing hat when appropriate.