5 ms·

Crows. http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Crebain http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Crebain If crows can be sent into the world to hunt for the ringbearer they can certainly

by dageshi 14y ago

Crows. http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Crebain http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Crebain If crows can be sent into the world to hunt for the ringbearer they can certainly patrol the skies around Mordor. Crows spy the eagles entering Mordor and forces are dispatched to counter them.

jamesmiller5 14y ago
It's interesting that almost every point in the other replies is already explained in the article except yours. I'm surprised the crows didn't spot Frodo as he approached Mordor. It's reasonable to assume they were covering more ground away from Mordor already though.
- dageshi 14y ago
  Dressed as orcs they probably blend in. If you're a crow patrolling the skies around Mordor, seeing a few extra (small) orc's wandering around on the ground probably isn't anything unusual or even your job to worry about. After all the entire place is ringed with natural defenses with orc's patrolling all the entries that do exist. As a Crow your job is to watch the skies and make sure nothing untoward comes in that way. It seems incredibly unlikely to me that Sauron is going to protect the borders of Mordor so well and then ignore the sky, especially when he has the perfect agents, the Crows, for the job.
- simonh 14y ago
  By that point Sauron was convinced (among other things, by Pippin and Aragorn's contact with the Palantir) that the Ring was in Gondor.
NoodleIncident 14y ago
Not just around Mordor, either, the party had to hide from them quite a few times. I think this is the answer.
xymostech 14y ago
Did you read the whole article? "After Frodo and Sam entered Mordor thru Cirith Ungol, Sauron had fully ten days to contemplate the purpose of their mission into Mordor, and did not realize that their plan was to destroy the Ring until the last moment. Given that the Mouth of Sauron refers to the intruders as "spies", Sauron's most likely thought would be that the eagles are merely flying over his realm for reconnaisance purposes. Thus, even if Sauron notices the eagles, his response would not necessarily be an appropriate one to prevent the Ring from being destroyed (such as having the Nazgûl fly directly to Mt. Doom to intercept the eagles)."
- dageshi 14y ago
  Two spies aren't going to do much inside Mordor, in practice they've somehow got to be able to communicate information outside of Mordor, or get out themselves. Either impossible or very very difficult. In terms of being "spies" they are an annoyance, not a huge threat. A giant eagle patrolling your skies is the complete opposite, it can see everything, all your forces, where they're going, what they're doing and it can get that information back out again quickly while it's still relevant. So if you have the Nazgul, why wouldn't you send them after such a powerful creature the moment it enters your territory?
  - lloeki 14y ago
    > A giant eagle patrolling your skies is the complete opposite Not even patrolling. Aimed full speed at Mt Doom in a straight line (according to the proposed map and speed vs stealth hypothesis). It would be reasonable they could be spotted early on, and suddenly the question Sauron has to answer is: "What could a small, fast air force sent directly towards Mt Doom be up to?", to which the answer is obvious. This would make him likely to set up something (interception, barrage...) sufficiently likely to jeopardise the mission. The fact that it is not discussed as a strategy is a much better argument as to why it's a plot hole than any technical point. Still, at that time it is not known what kind of forces stand in Mordor. Besides, the protagonists may not be seeing the task as being so urgent at it looks towards the very end. This makes a prudent approach more reasonable than an all-in decision. My very personal hunch is that the hobbits (incl. Gollum) are supposed to do this completely by themselves. Many times Gandalf is asked if things will succeed, and many times he worries about their situation and merely hopes they fare well. Still, he refuses to leverage any form of magical or network power to gather any intel — however remote so as not to disclose their location — regarding their progress and simply waits for something to happen. As a plot device, he basically delegates this to Gollum which stands as the guide towards Mt Doom and the Evil that Frodon has to stand against, hence making him stay on the Good side. It is likely that without Gollum, however short the timing (e.g in a supposed fast-flight), Frodon would succumb to the ring.
HaloZero 14y ago
It might also be that Crows do not recognize the hobbits as at threat to report? Hobbits are less known outside of their own realm and maybe the crows thought of them as just another wild animal?
- ywgdana 14y ago
  It's too late for that argument by that point. Sauron (and Saruman) are aware of hobbits and that one of them has the ring -- hence the Nazgul showing up in the Shire even before Frodo gets on the road.
  - stcredzero 14y ago
    Yes, but you're assuming information flows flawlessly. Crows are pretty cantankerous and mischievous at times. I wonder how hard it would be to get them to sit and listen to descriptions of Hobbits. Also, maybe all humanoids look alike to them?
bargl 14y ago
It is also much easier to spot a flying object from the ground then a ground object from the air. This is why recon is so hard when looking for something from the sky. It is even easier to locate object in the air from the air. So effectively to piggy-back on your suggestion crows in the air would be able to see other avian creatures and report on their location faster than they could spot 2 creatures sneaking through the undergrowth. In which case speed would no longer be very beneficial because aware of the threat (birds being greater than 2 unseen hobbits), you could then mount an attack on the birds. When balancing stealth and speed I think you can make a strong argument that stealth in this case would be much more important. Of course this is assuming you are looking for the birds... most land creatures just don't look up very often.
- arcatek 14y ago
  Yeah, but assuming X different eagles, with each one a 'dummy' bearer, it would be much more difficult to kill the right one. Or Sauron could still think that it's Aragorn trying to be a hero and killing him in face-to-face.
stevekemp 14y ago
Balrogs have wings too, right? ;)
jacoblyles 14y ago
Crows also may be used offensively. They aren't much good against giant eagles, but in quantities of a thousand they may be, especially if the eagles have to worry about transporting a substantial burden of hobbits.

by dageshi 14y ago

jamesmiller5 14y ago

It's interesting that almost every point in the other replies is already explained in the article except yours. I'm surprised the crows didn't spot Frodo as he approached Mordor. It's reasonable to assume they were covering more ground away from Mordor already though.

dageshi 14y ago
Dressed as orcs they probably blend in. If you're a crow patrolling the skies around Mordor, seeing a few extra (small) orc's wandering around on the ground probably isn't anything unusual or even your job to worry about. After all the entire place is ringed with natural defenses with orc's patrolling all the entries that do exist. As a Crow your job is to watch the skies and make sure nothing untoward comes in that way. It seems incredibly unlikely to me that Sauron is going to protect the borders of Mordor so well and then ignore the sky, especially when he has the perfect agents, the Crows, for the job.
simonh 14y ago
By that point Sauron was convinced (among other things, by Pippin and Aragorn's contact with the Palantir) that the Ring was in Gondor.

NoodleIncident 14y ago

Not just around Mordor, either, the party had to hide from them quite a few times. I think this is the answer.

xymostech 14y ago

Did you read the whole article? "After Frodo and Sam entered Mordor thru Cirith Ungol, Sauron had fully ten days to contemplate the purpose of their mission into Mordor, and did not realize that their plan was to destroy the Ring until the last moment. Given that the Mouth of Sauron refers to the intruders as "spies", Sauron's most likely thought would be that the eagles are merely flying over his realm for reconnaisance purposes. Thus, even if Sauron notices the eagles, his response would not necessarily be an appropriate one to prevent the Ring from being destroyed (such as having the Nazgûl fly directly to Mt. Doom to intercept the eagles)."

dageshi 14y ago
Two spies aren't going to do much inside Mordor, in practice they've somehow got to be able to communicate information outside of Mordor, or get out themselves. Either impossible or very very difficult. In terms of being "spies" they are an annoyance, not a huge threat. A giant eagle patrolling your skies is the complete opposite, it can see everything, all your forces, where they're going, what they're doing and it can get that information back out again quickly while it's still relevant. So if you have the Nazgul, why wouldn't you send them after such a powerful creature the moment it enters your territory?
- lloeki 14y ago
  > A giant eagle patrolling your skies is the complete opposite Not even patrolling. Aimed full speed at Mt Doom in a straight line (according to the proposed map and speed vs stealth hypothesis). It would be reasonable they could be spotted early on, and suddenly the question Sauron has to answer is: "What could a small, fast air force sent directly towards Mt Doom be up to?", to which the answer is obvious. This would make him likely to set up something (interception, barrage...) sufficiently likely to jeopardise the mission. The fact that it is not discussed as a strategy is a much better argument as to why it's a plot hole than any technical point. Still, at that time it is not known what kind of forces stand in Mordor. Besides, the protagonists may not be seeing the task as being so urgent at it looks towards the very end. This makes a prudent approach more reasonable than an all-in decision. My very personal hunch is that the hobbits (incl. Gollum) are supposed to do this completely by themselves. Many times Gandalf is asked if things will succeed, and many times he worries about their situation and merely hopes they fare well. Still, he refuses to leverage any form of magical or network power to gather any intel — however remote so as not to disclose their location — regarding their progress and simply waits for something to happen. As a plot device, he basically delegates this to Gollum which stands as the guide towards Mt Doom and the Evil that Frodon has to stand against, hence making him stay on the Good side. It is likely that without Gollum, however short the timing (e.g in a supposed fast-flight), Frodon would succumb to the ring.

HaloZero 14y ago

It might also be that Crows do not recognize the hobbits as at threat to report? Hobbits are less known outside of their own realm and maybe the crows thought of them as just another wild animal?

ywgdana 14y ago
It's too late for that argument by that point. Sauron (and Saruman) are aware of hobbits and that one of them has the ring -- hence the Nazgul showing up in the Shire even before Frodo gets on the road.
- stcredzero 14y ago
  Yes, but you're assuming information flows flawlessly. Crows are pretty cantankerous and mischievous at times. I wonder how hard it would be to get them to sit and listen to descriptions of Hobbits. Also, maybe all humanoids look alike to them?

bargl 14y ago

It is also much easier to spot a flying object from the ground then a ground object from the air. This is why recon is so hard when looking for something from the sky. It is even easier to locate object in the air from the air. So effectively to piggy-back on your suggestion crows in the air would be able to see other avian creatures and report on their location faster than they could spot 2 creatures sneaking through the undergrowth. In which case speed would no longer be very beneficial because aware of the threat (birds being greater than 2 unseen hobbits), you could then mount an attack on the birds. When balancing stealth and speed I think you can make a strong argument that stealth in this case would be much more important. Of course this is assuming you are looking for the birds... most land creatures just don't look up very often.

arcatek 14y ago
Yeah, but assuming X different eagles, with each one a 'dummy' bearer, it would be much more difficult to kill the right one. Or Sauron could still think that it's Aragorn trying to be a hero and killing him in face-to-face.

stevekemp 14y ago

Balrogs have wings too, right? ;)

jacoblyles 14y ago

Crows also may be used offensively. They aren't much good against giant eagles, but in quantities of a thousand they may be, especially if the eagles have to worry about transporting a substantial burden of hobbits.