4 ms·

Doom on the Commodore VIC-20

64 points by rocky1138 14y ago

columbo 14y ago
I think this is a video of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7h3H-_8N_o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7h3H-_8N_o If that really is vic-20 hardware... that's amazing!
- mynameishere 14y ago
  I think the biggest constraint on a vic-20 would have been memory. The apple II had the same CPU with some fairly impressive 3D-esque games. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQLFwUu5cTY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQLFwUu5cTY ...but yeah, I actually knew someone with a VIC-20 and the software for it was truly abysmal even at the time.
  - kenjackson 14y ago
    The Vic20 had some really good software. I still remember Gorf on it. I had a skiing game that was quite impressive for a game that used less than 3.5KB of RAM (yes that is 3.5 kilobytes).
    - caf 14y ago
      I think the first electronic circuit I ever designed from scratch was an in-line "autofire box" for my VIC-20 joystick so I could kill at Gorf ;)
  - vidarh 14y ago
    Skyfox ran just fine on the C64 too. You're probably right the main limitation is memory. Skyfox was written around the constraints of these platforms from the outset, and if you have a little bit of extra memory to waste there are tons of methods you can use to do less work. On the C64 at least (not idea about the Apple II, as I don't think I ever even saw one in person - they were not widespread in Europe), custom character sets (so you could move just a few characters to move an object), hardware sprites and careful animation of small subsets of characters in the custom character sets, coupled with multiple versions of these character sets with pre-scaled objects were all common ways of handling 3D. Only a very few games ever tried doing 3D "properly" with bitmap graphics, and they uniformly looked much worse. E.g. Elite.
bri3d 14y ago
More VIC-20 coolness: Anything by Viznut/PWP. Check out one of the demos, keeping in mind this runs on unexpanded hardware with less than 4KB of RAM: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaFPU6oRXJ8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaFPU6oRXJ8 Some interesting write-ups about VIC-20 oddity exploited by the demoscene: http://www.zimmers.net/anonftp/pub/cbm/vic20/programming/vic20frontiers.txt http://www.zimmers.net/anonftp/pub/cbm/vic20/programming/vic... http://www.pelulamu.net/pwp/vic20/waveforms.txt http://www.pelulamu.net/pwp/vic20/waveforms.txt
- zxcdw 14y ago
  Came to say the exact same thing. (Fake) speech synthesis on VIC-20 with sung lyrics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SdGkkp1aq8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SdGkkp1aq8
- anigbrowl 14y ago
  Wow. The vic-20 was my first computer, and I did not think tht was possible on it. At the time I remember thinking I should have asked for a Spectrum instead but I didn't think my parents would take it seriously :-)
  - tptacek 14y ago
    Check out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SdGkkp1aq8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SdGkkp1aq8 (h/t Nate Lawson, who sent this to me last night).
shard 14y ago
Doesn't this feel more like Castle Wolfenstein than Doom?
tptacek 14y ago
I would happily read a whole book about what went into this.
- rocky1138 14y ago
  Me, too. Maybe Fabien Sanglard can do a code review of it? I love his blog for that.
digisign 14y ago
Vic-20 wow...those graphics are mind-blowing. I have some great memories of the random sentence generator, filled with every bad word several twelve-year-olds could think up. Good times. ;)
Corrado 14y ago
I had a VIC-20 back in the day and I never thought something like this would be available on that type of machine. It was soooo limited, even compared to most of its peers at the time. It was also cheap, that's why I could afford one on a paperboy's salary. :) Later I upgraded to a C-64 and was blown away by how much better everything was. This VIC-20 project makes me wonder how much a C-64 would be capable of today with modern software tools and methodologies and dedication. I'm betting you could approach Amiga 500 territory with it.
- Flow 14y ago
  The C64 has constantly been pushed and this his how demos look today: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGJ1Mpqp94w http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGJ1Mpqp94w http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzvMYE3PUn4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzvMYE3PUn4 I recommend all the demos from Oxyron and Booze Design.
lauskin 14y ago
wow! long time has been passed from this :_)
cygwin98 14y ago
Wow, DOOM! I had some nice memories to talk about: where as a newbie, I found a way to beat gurus and chased after them in deathmatches. Maybe a blog post in the weekend.

64 points by rocky1138 14y ago

I think this is a video of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7h3H-_8N_o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7h3H-_8N_o If that really is vic-20 hardware... that's amazing!

mynameishere 14y ago
I think the biggest constraint on a vic-20 would have been memory. The apple II had the same CPU with some fairly impressive 3D-esque games. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQLFwUu5cTY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQLFwUu5cTY ...but yeah, I actually knew someone with a VIC-20 and the software for it was truly abysmal even at the time.
- kenjackson 14y ago
  The Vic20 had some really good software. I still remember Gorf on it. I had a skiing game that was quite impressive for a game that used less than 3.5KB of RAM (yes that is 3.5 kilobytes).
  - caf 14y ago
    I think the first electronic circuit I ever designed from scratch was an in-line "autofire box" for my VIC-20 joystick so I could kill at Gorf ;)
- vidarh 14y ago
  Skyfox ran just fine on the C64 too. You're probably right the main limitation is memory. Skyfox was written around the constraints of these platforms from the outset, and if you have a little bit of extra memory to waste there are tons of methods you can use to do less work. On the C64 at least (not idea about the Apple II, as I don't think I ever even saw one in person - they were not widespread in Europe), custom character sets (so you could move just a few characters to move an object), hardware sprites and careful animation of small subsets of characters in the custom character sets, coupled with multiple versions of these character sets with pre-scaled objects were all common ways of handling 3D. Only a very few games ever tried doing 3D "properly" with bitmap graphics, and they uniformly looked much worse. E.g. Elite.

bri3d 14y ago

More VIC-20 coolness: Anything by Viznut/PWP. Check out one of the demos, keeping in mind this runs on unexpanded hardware with less than 4KB of RAM: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaFPU6oRXJ8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaFPU6oRXJ8 Some interesting write-ups about VIC-20 oddity exploited by the demoscene: http://www.zimmers.net/anonftp/pub/cbm/vic20/programming/vic20frontiers.txt http://www.zimmers.net/anonftp/pub/cbm/vic20/programming/vic... http://www.pelulamu.net/pwp/vic20/waveforms.txt http://www.pelulamu.net/pwp/vic20/waveforms.txt

zxcdw 14y ago
Came to say the exact same thing. (Fake) speech synthesis on VIC-20 with sung lyrics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SdGkkp1aq8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SdGkkp1aq8
anigbrowl 14y ago
Wow. The vic-20 was my first computer, and I did not think tht was possible on it. At the time I remember thinking I should have asked for a Spectrum instead but I didn't think my parents would take it seriously :-)
- tptacek 14y ago
  Check out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SdGkkp1aq8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SdGkkp1aq8 (h/t Nate Lawson, who sent this to me last night).

shard 14y ago

Doesn't this feel more like Castle Wolfenstein than Doom?

tptacek 14y ago

I would happily read a whole book about what went into this.

rocky1138 14y ago
Me, too. Maybe Fabien Sanglard can do a code review of it? I love his blog for that.

digisign 14y ago

Vic-20 wow...those graphics are mind-blowing. I have some great memories of the random sentence generator, filled with every bad word several twelve-year-olds could think up. Good times. ;)

Corrado 14y ago

I had a VIC-20 back in the day and I never thought something like this would be available on that type of machine. It was soooo limited, even compared to most of its peers at the time. It was also cheap, that's why I could afford one on a paperboy's salary. :) Later I upgraded to a C-64 and was blown away by how much better everything was. This VIC-20 project makes me wonder how much a C-64 would be capable of today with modern software tools and methodologies and dedication. I'm betting you could approach Amiga 500 territory with it.

Flow 14y ago
The C64 has constantly been pushed and this his how demos look today: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGJ1Mpqp94w http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGJ1Mpqp94w http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzvMYE3PUn4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzvMYE3PUn4 I recommend all the demos from Oxyron and Booze Design.

lauskin 14y ago

wow! long time has been passed from this :_)

cygwin98 14y ago

Wow, DOOM! I had some nice memories to talk about: where as a newbie, I found a way to beat gurus and chased after them in deathmatches. Maybe a blog post in the weekend.