5 ms·

A really good way to coerce the pitchforks back into their sheds is to provide proof, especially when your DMCA is vague and posted on a ridiculously public pla

by jgj 14y ago

A really good way to coerce the pitchforks back into their sheds is to provide proof, especially when your DMCA is vague and posted on a ridiculously public platform. Allan has done neither, and still hasn't done so in his tweets or this post over on his bubbly walled garden. A few simple side-by-side screenshots would have sufficed and put the court of public opinion squarely on his side. He may be completely in the right but his approach left him open to the "pitchforks" he's so dismissively bemoaning.

cjensen 14y ago
DMCA takedowns are basically form letters. There is no place to put the full explanation. Second, it was Git Hub that posted it publicly, not the DMCA issuer. Yes, a full explanation would be nice too.
- Bluestrike2 14y ago
  Though much is boilerplate, it's also irrelevant. Here, we have a DMCA takedown notice that lacks two of the necessary elements: specific identification of the copyrighted work infringed as well as the infringing material. It doesn't take much to meet these elements, which together would have also allayed public concerns. Barring that, however, it's not a valid notice. As a result, Github has no duty to act as the courts have explicitly affirmed.
Pyramids 14y ago
Not to mention, he even says himself that it was " ... the similarities are a bit more than striking. That's not a huge issue until you release everything together - the icons, the colors, the UI elements, whatever." DMCA notices are to enforce against copyright infringement only, not as a tool for organizations to abuse in order to remove content which they think is "too similar", if this was the case, businesses would simply send their competition DMCA notices for being "too similar." He also stated that because DesignModo "removed some icons" which LayerVault thought were the most blatantly infringing somehow implies guilt, as opposed to just someone trying to handle a dispute in a friendly manner. I'm not a designer, and I haven't heard of LayerVault until now, however unless some very damning evidence is presented, I feel like every statement he's making is essentially digging a deeper grave. EDIT: Having looked at the examples of the claimed infringement which are now surfacing, this is even further evidence that this is misuse of the DMCA. At most, this would be a civil / trademark dispute.
- dthunt 14y ago
  Striking Similarity is the standard. While the standard there is not crystal clear, you expect to hear things like, 'hey, they have the same bug we do!' and 'is that one of our comments?!!'. Web folks these days have some strange ideas about copyright, particularly as it relates to an overall 'site feel'. Unfortunately, this 'site feel' is not a single work, in the same way that you couldn't successfully keep others from making art in your 'style'. The proper way to get a monopoly on a 'feel' is with one of those ridiculous design patents. That'd be inexcusable, because these patents mean nothing except that you intend to spend a lot of time making lawsuits based on poorly examined, impossibly wide patents.
justjimmy 14y ago
Here's the side by side comparison Noun Project vs Layer Vault vs Flat UI http://imgur.com/IH1osAD http://imgur.com/IH1osAD If anyone notice other similar icons, I can update image with side by side comparison. *Thanks to fellow HNers for the links to the images. I just stuck it all together side by side. Edit: Updated with more samples.
- mmanfrin 14y ago
  That may have divined inspiration from the LV icons, but that is in no way copied.
- tcdent 14y ago
  Wow, that's absolutely not plagiarism. Just generic concepts that have been interpreted similarly.
- Legion 14y ago
  Wow, that is considerably less egregious than I had imagined it would be. From my initial reading, it sounded like images were outright copied, or copied and slightly altered. That is hardly the case in these examples. If there aren't any stronger examples than these, then LayerVault wouldn't seem to have much of a basis for all this.
- mootothemax 14y ago
  Three gears together doesn't seem to be that novel an idea either: http://thenounproject.com/noun/gears/#icon-No8949 http://thenounproject.com/noun/gears/#icon-No8949
- dictum 14y ago
  The prototypical talking head with speech bubble: http://www.guidebookgallery.org/pics/gui/installation/complete/macos70.png http://www.guidebookgallery.org/pics/gui/installation/comple...
- panacea 14y ago
  As a graphic designer I was pre-disposed to siding with you against the pitchfork wielding pirates, but that's ridiculous. Bullshit takedown. Folded newspaper done in a minimalist style? Cogs? Face talking? Is this a prank or art piece troll?

by jgj 14y ago

cjensen 14y ago

DMCA takedowns are basically form letters. There is no place to put the full explanation. Second, it was Git Hub that posted it publicly, not the DMCA issuer. Yes, a full explanation would be nice too.

Bluestrike2 14y ago
Though much is boilerplate, it's also irrelevant. Here, we have a DMCA takedown notice that lacks two of the necessary elements: specific identification of the copyrighted work infringed as well as the infringing material. It doesn't take much to meet these elements, which together would have also allayed public concerns. Barring that, however, it's not a valid notice. As a result, Github has no duty to act as the courts have explicitly affirmed.

Pyramids 14y ago

Not to mention, he even says himself that it was " ... the similarities are a bit more than striking. That's not a huge issue until you release everything together - the icons, the colors, the UI elements, whatever." DMCA notices are to enforce against copyright infringement only, not as a tool for organizations to abuse in order to remove content which they think is "too similar", if this was the case, businesses would simply send their competition DMCA notices for being "too similar." He also stated that because DesignModo "removed some icons" which LayerVault thought were the most blatantly infringing somehow implies guilt, as opposed to just someone trying to handle a dispute in a friendly manner. I'm not a designer, and I haven't heard of LayerVault until now, however unless some very damning evidence is presented, I feel like every statement he's making is essentially digging a deeper grave. EDIT: Having looked at the examples of the claimed infringement which are now surfacing, this is even further evidence that this is misuse of the DMCA. At most, this would be a civil / trademark dispute.

dthunt 14y ago
Striking Similarity is the standard. While the standard there is not crystal clear, you expect to hear things like, 'hey, they have the same bug we do!' and 'is that one of our comments?!!'. Web folks these days have some strange ideas about copyright, particularly as it relates to an overall 'site feel'. Unfortunately, this 'site feel' is not a single work, in the same way that you couldn't successfully keep others from making art in your 'style'. The proper way to get a monopoly on a 'feel' is with one of those ridiculous design patents. That'd be inexcusable, because these patents mean nothing except that you intend to spend a lot of time making lawsuits based on poorly examined, impossibly wide patents.

justjimmy 14y ago

Here's the side by side comparison Noun Project vs Layer Vault vs Flat UI http://imgur.com/IH1osAD http://imgur.com/IH1osAD If anyone notice other similar icons, I can update image with side by side comparison. *Thanks to fellow HNers for the links to the images. I just stuck it all together side by side. Edit: Updated with more samples.

mmanfrin 14y ago
That may have divined inspiration from the LV icons, but that is in no way copied.
tcdent 14y ago
Wow, that's absolutely not plagiarism. Just generic concepts that have been interpreted similarly.
Legion 14y ago
Wow, that is considerably less egregious than I had imagined it would be. From my initial reading, it sounded like images were outright copied, or copied and slightly altered. That is hardly the case in these examples. If there aren't any stronger examples than these, then LayerVault wouldn't seem to have much of a basis for all this.
mootothemax 14y ago
Three gears together doesn't seem to be that novel an idea either: http://thenounproject.com/noun/gears/#icon-No8949 http://thenounproject.com/noun/gears/#icon-No8949
dictum 14y ago
The prototypical talking head with speech bubble: http://www.guidebookgallery.org/pics/gui/installation/complete/macos70.png http://www.guidebookgallery.org/pics/gui/installation/comple...
panacea 14y ago
As a graphic designer I was pre-disposed to siding with you against the pitchfork wielding pirates, but that's ridiculous. Bullshit takedown. Folded newspaper done in a minimalist style? Cogs? Face talking? Is this a prank or art piece troll?