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> iPhoto is an application. Not the OS. This is needless (and incorrect) semantics. An OS is just a collection of applications (perhaps the distinction you wer

> iPhoto is an application. Not the OS. This is needless (and incorrect) semantics. An OS is just a collection of applications (perhaps the distinction you were trying to make was the kernel or "base OS"). As far as the end user is concerned, when they get a new Mac it comes with iPhoto, which is made by Apple, the same people that make the rest of the OS (unless they get the ONE configuration of the Mac Pro which is the only hardware that doesn't include it). More importantly, when they plug any photo taking device into their freshly opened Mac, iPhoto pops up until they find and explicitly turn off the preference to do that. To and end user (and even by many of the existing technical definitions of OS), iPhoto is part of the OS.

coldtea 14y ago
>This is needless (and incorrect) semantics. Incorrect in what parallel universe? >An OS is just a collection of applications (perhaps the distinction you were trying to make was the kernel or "base OS"). Yes. OS X is just a collection of applications of which iPhoto is NOT one. IIRC, they don't even bundle iLife anymore (you're supposed to get it from the App Store) but that's beside the point. >As far as the end user is concerned (...) To an end user (and even by many of the existing technical definitions of OS), iPhoto is part of the OS. Are you some naive end user OR an HN commenter that CAN tell the different between OS X and iPhoto, and doesn't complain about the latter on a thread about the first?
- tolmasky 14y ago
  * >Incorrect in what parallel universe? >Yes. OS X is just a collection of applications of which iPhoto is NOT one. IIRC, they don't even bundle iLife anymore (you're supposed to get it from the App Store) but that's beside the point.* iPhoto IS one. As I distinctly explained in my previous post, iPhoto comes installed on every every single Mac that Apple sells with the sole exception of the server configuration of the Mac Pro. Go to the Apple web page and click on any Mac and look at the "Built-in Apps" section, you will see iPhoto displayed right alongside "system" apps like Mac App Store, Mail, and Messages. iLife is just a marketing name. iTunes used to be part of iLife too. Now they're just apps, apps that 99.9% of people that purchase a Mac will find on their computers pre-installed when they open them. That was half my point: that iPhoto today is just about as much a part of a default installation of Mac OS X as any. >Are you some naive end user OR an HN commenter that CAN tell the different between OS X and iPhoto, and doesn't complain about the latter on a thread about the first? Now that we've gotten the fact that iPhoto will almost certainly be on my machine when I open it, it should be clear to you that it doesn't matter which of these I am. For better or worse, iPhoto is a part of the Mac experience. Drawing an imaginary line around a subset of applications and calling them "OS" or "not OS" does not take away from the fact that a bad iPhoto experience will understandably contribute to a bad Mac experience. As such, both by technical and laymen's understandings of OS, the critique is valid. Edit: My mistake, iPhoto is included in the server one as well. So it turns out iPhoto comes installed on every single Mac.
  - rsynnott 14y ago
    > . As I distinctly explained in my previous post, iPhoto comes installed on every every single Mac that Apple sells with the sole exception of the server configuration of the Mac Pro. Go to the Apple web page and click on any Mac and look at the "Built-in Apps" section, you will see iPhoto displayed right alongside "system" apps like Mac App Store, Mail, and Messages However, reinstall MacOS, and you will notice it doesn't install iLife. Similarly, most Windows computers seem to ship with that 30 day trial of MS Office these days; does that mean that 30 day trials of MS Office are part of Windows?
    - deleted 14y ago
      [deleted]
    - tolmasky 14y ago
      If office came installed on every single pc (not just most, and not just for 30 days), then it would be as much a part of windows as any other app, and would be fair game for criticism of why people don't like windows.
  - coldtea 14y ago
    >For better or worse, iPhoto is a part of the Mac experience. Sure, it's a non-part-of-the-core-OS, bundled for free, easily replaceable, with 10s of alternatives, peripheral to using a Mac, part of the Mac experience. To return to our duck-ing topic, what does that have to do with OS X being bad or "not just working"? If you had to bring up a bundled, non-essential, app to make your point of OS X not working well, then one has to conclude it works mighty fine overall. And it's even worse than that: you haven't actually even made any point against iPhoto. Just that you don't like it's filesystem abstraction. Which is neither here, not there.
    - tolmasky 14y ago
      I am not the OP (read the usernames). In fact I don't have a problem with iPhoto at all since I never do photo stuff (don't worry I have issues with just about every other aspect of OS X). I simply wanted to point out that if he had a bad experience with iPhoto then it is fine for him to criticize Mac OS X. Especially considering that dealing with photos is a pretty basic thing for a user to do now adays, and that iPhoto comes with every single mac, and will automatically launch as soon as you plug in a camera. I believe you are well aware that you are being disingenuous by treating iPhoto as some sort of unrelated third party application that you have no idea why anyone would bring up out of be blue in a discussion about OS X. Who cares if its "non essential", most of the stuff in OS X is completely non-essential (ahem dashboard, photo booth, even mail considering most people use webmail).
Spiritus 14y ago
I reckon Joe the average user is perfectly fine with that. Way better than my girlfriends "New folder X", where X is like 1-15 because she can't be bothered with sorting them while manually importing. It's way too time consuming. Same with my parents, every time I'm visiting they give me their camera to import the pictures. It would be godsent if iPhoto popped up in their face and asked for import and sorted photos for them. We're all/most power users here, it's a factor of a gazillion times easier for us to opt-out of stuff like iPhoto, than it is for my mother to opt-in for it.

coldtea 14y ago

>This is needless (and incorrect) semantics. Incorrect in what parallel universe? >An OS is just a collection of applications (perhaps the distinction you were trying to make was the kernel or "base OS"). Yes. OS X is just a collection of applications of which iPhoto is NOT one. IIRC, they don't even bundle iLife anymore (you're supposed to get it from the App Store) but that's beside the point. >As far as the end user is concerned (...) To an end user (and even by many of the existing technical definitions of OS), iPhoto is part of the OS. Are you some naive end user OR an HN commenter that CAN tell the different between OS X and iPhoto, and doesn't complain about the latter on a thread about the first?

tolmasky 14y ago
* >Incorrect in what parallel universe? >Yes. OS X is just a collection of applications of which iPhoto is NOT one. IIRC, they don't even bundle iLife anymore (you're supposed to get it from the App Store) but that's beside the point.* iPhoto IS one. As I distinctly explained in my previous post, iPhoto comes installed on every every single Mac that Apple sells with the sole exception of the server configuration of the Mac Pro. Go to the Apple web page and click on any Mac and look at the "Built-in Apps" section, you will see iPhoto displayed right alongside "system" apps like Mac App Store, Mail, and Messages. iLife is just a marketing name. iTunes used to be part of iLife too. Now they're just apps, apps that 99.9% of people that purchase a Mac will find on their computers pre-installed when they open them. That was half my point: that iPhoto today is just about as much a part of a default installation of Mac OS X as any. >Are you some naive end user OR an HN commenter that CAN tell the different between OS X and iPhoto, and doesn't complain about the latter on a thread about the first? Now that we've gotten the fact that iPhoto will almost certainly be on my machine when I open it, it should be clear to you that it doesn't matter which of these I am. For better or worse, iPhoto is a part of the Mac experience. Drawing an imaginary line around a subset of applications and calling them "OS" or "not OS" does not take away from the fact that a bad iPhoto experience will understandably contribute to a bad Mac experience. As such, both by technical and laymen's understandings of OS, the critique is valid. Edit: My mistake, iPhoto is included in the server one as well. So it turns out iPhoto comes installed on every single Mac.
- rsynnott 14y ago
  > . As I distinctly explained in my previous post, iPhoto comes installed on every every single Mac that Apple sells with the sole exception of the server configuration of the Mac Pro. Go to the Apple web page and click on any Mac and look at the "Built-in Apps" section, you will see iPhoto displayed right alongside "system" apps like Mac App Store, Mail, and Messages However, reinstall MacOS, and you will notice it doesn't install iLife. Similarly, most Windows computers seem to ship with that 30 day trial of MS Office these days; does that mean that 30 day trials of MS Office are part of Windows?
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - tolmasky 14y ago
    If office came installed on every single pc (not just most, and not just for 30 days), then it would be as much a part of windows as any other app, and would be fair game for criticism of why people don't like windows.
- coldtea 14y ago
  >For better or worse, iPhoto is a part of the Mac experience. Sure, it's a non-part-of-the-core-OS, bundled for free, easily replaceable, with 10s of alternatives, peripheral to using a Mac, part of the Mac experience. To return to our duck-ing topic, what does that have to do with OS X being bad or "not just working"? If you had to bring up a bundled, non-essential, app to make your point of OS X not working well, then one has to conclude it works mighty fine overall. And it's even worse than that: you haven't actually even made any point against iPhoto. Just that you don't like it's filesystem abstraction. Which is neither here, not there.
  - tolmasky 14y ago
    I am not the OP (read the usernames). In fact I don't have a problem with iPhoto at all since I never do photo stuff (don't worry I have issues with just about every other aspect of OS X). I simply wanted to point out that if he had a bad experience with iPhoto then it is fine for him to criticize Mac OS X. Especially considering that dealing with photos is a pretty basic thing for a user to do now adays, and that iPhoto comes with every single mac, and will automatically launch as soon as you plug in a camera. I believe you are well aware that you are being disingenuous by treating iPhoto as some sort of unrelated third party application that you have no idea why anyone would bring up out of be blue in a discussion about OS X. Who cares if its "non essential", most of the stuff in OS X is completely non-essential (ahem dashboard, photo booth, even mail considering most people use webmail).

Spiritus 14y ago

I reckon Joe the average user is perfectly fine with that. Way better than my girlfriends "New folder X", where X is like 1-15 because she can't be bothered with sorting them while manually importing. It's way too time consuming. Same with my parents, every time I'm visiting they give me their camera to import the pictures. It would be godsent if iPhoto popped up in their face and asked for import and sorted photos for them. We're all/most power users here, it's a factor of a gazillion times easier for us to opt-out of stuff like iPhoto, than it is for my mother to opt-in for it.