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I thought there was a way to report these issues to Apple without a public letter. Also, the use of "embarrassing" to describe an unfortunate bug makes this fee

I thought there was a way to report these issues to Apple without a public letter. Also, the use of "embarrassing" to describe an unfortunate bug makes this feel like a disingenuous PR stunt.

tumultco 14y ago
We reported this to Apple (that's what the rdar:// link is for, to add to the Radar bug tracking system). The "embarrassing" perhaps stems from our frustration and months of dealing with similar issues, but is something that should have easily been uncovered if apple did dogfooding of the technology before forcing it on developers. I wrote it up as more of a public service announcement to other Mac developers who might be encountering the same issue.
- anotherbadlogin 14y ago
  "if apple did dogfooding of the technology" That is meaningless bullshit. If you want us to take your concerns seriously, express yourself in real words. English has boatloads of them; surely you can find some to express what you mean.
- coldtea 14y ago
  >The "embarrassing" perhaps stems from our frustration and months of dealing with similar issues, but is something that should have easily been uncovered if apple did dogfooding of the technology before forcing it on developers. The technology was obviously tested by Apple --they didn't just put something out there--, and it was also available for third party testers to test with the betas. If nobody had found it at that point, why would Apple? Maybe it's not as common as you think.
jfoutz 14y ago
There is indeed a way, but you'll get a better response by stuffing a message in a bottle, and throwing the bottle in an ocean. OTOH, if your issue gets some media attention, an Apple engineer will call you.
dalke 14y ago
There is a way. The bottom of the page and the end of the video link you to rdar://problem/12801387 . However, that is not a public site. I do not agree with your assessment of what "embarrassing" means. This could as easily be an irate developer as a PR stunt. I believe the latter interpretation is more likely. Here are some other examples of how "embarrassing bug" is used, in a style which is similar to what is used here: Cloud computing: Amazon suffered a highly embarrassing bug last spring when part of its much vaunted cloud service went down. Client websites such as Quora and Reddit were temporarily forced offline because they relied on Amazon’s servers - The Independent. Microsoft's command-line utility for copying files, 'copy', has an embarrassing bug. If you command it to copy a folder into a new location, it instead copies the contents of the folder, and ignores the folder itself. Therefore, it does what you didn't tell it to do, and doesn't do what you told it to do. Therefore, that is an egregious, unforgivable, and incredibly embarrassing bug for Microsoft. -- http://nicholas.rinard.us/2012/07/embarrassing-bug-for-microsoft.html http://nicholas.rinard.us/2012/07/embarrassing-bug-for-micro... Incrediblly embarrassing bug CS4 -- http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/2/945614 http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/2/945614 (with autosave on, it does not save modified work on exit or ask if the work should be saved) MICROSOFT`s EMBARRASSING BUG -- http://www.cbronline.com/news/microsofts_embarrassing_bug http://www.cbronline.com/news/microsofts_embarrassing_bug (2.01 - 2.00 = 0.00 in pre-Win95 versions of the desktop calculator) As you can see, these aren't all written as PR stunts.
- retrogradeorbit 14y ago
  To fanboys it's only 'embarrassing' when it's the other sides problem. WWGS? (What would Gruber say?) Also when I used to be a Mac administrator, the Apple private databases/forums would drive me mad. God forbid if you could do a Google search for what you are experiencing and find some discussion! Bugs? What Bugs?
efnx 14y ago
I think you hit the nail on the head. It's a PR stunt. It's an add that essentially says - look how smart we are, and this is our product. I mean no disrespect, but it smells.
- anotherbadlogin 14y ago
  Nice how my response to this got deleted, HN. Good job once again with your shitty site. There's no evidence that this is a "PR stunt" or that anybody thinks they're so smart. It's a pissed-off developer whose product looks shoddy because of a shoddy Apple product. It's that simple.
taligent 14y ago
Yes. You can report bugs to Apple: http://bugreporter.apple.com http://bugreporter.apple.com It is a web interface for Radar and all bugs are triaged by the dev teams pretty quickly. Unfortunately you can't see outstanding bugs or track their progress.
- grinich 14y ago
  You should also post to Open Radar, which is for that exact purpose. http://www.openradar.me/ http://www.openradar.me/
ajasmin 14y ago
It's nice to have a blog post and video demonstrating the bug clearly. If I was confronted to this problem trying to save a file, I'd love to find it on Google. I don't really care whether or not they call it embarrassing or use their own product as an example.
kryptiskt 14y ago
Not being able to handle legal file names is pretty embarrassing as bugs go these days. Path name handling is very testable, and a known source of problem since forever.

I thought there was a way to report these issues to Apple without a public letter. Also, the use of "embarrassing" to describe an unfortunate bug makes this feel like a disingenuous PR stunt.

tumultco 14y ago

We reported this to Apple (that's what the rdar:// link is for, to add to the Radar bug tracking system). The "embarrassing" perhaps stems from our frustration and months of dealing with similar issues, but is something that should have easily been uncovered if apple did dogfooding of the technology before forcing it on developers. I wrote it up as more of a public service announcement to other Mac developers who might be encountering the same issue.

anotherbadlogin 14y ago
"if apple did dogfooding of the technology" That is meaningless bullshit. If you want us to take your concerns seriously, express yourself in real words. English has boatloads of them; surely you can find some to express what you mean.
coldtea 14y ago
>The "embarrassing" perhaps stems from our frustration and months of dealing with similar issues, but is something that should have easily been uncovered if apple did dogfooding of the technology before forcing it on developers. The technology was obviously tested by Apple --they didn't just put something out there--, and it was also available for third party testers to test with the betas. If nobody had found it at that point, why would Apple? Maybe it's not as common as you think.

jfoutz 14y ago

There is indeed a way, but you'll get a better response by stuffing a message in a bottle, and throwing the bottle in an ocean. OTOH, if your issue gets some media attention, an Apple engineer will call you.

dalke 14y ago

There is a way. The bottom of the page and the end of the video link you to rdar://problem/12801387 . However, that is not a public site. I do not agree with your assessment of what "embarrassing" means. This could as easily be an irate developer as a PR stunt. I believe the latter interpretation is more likely. Here are some other examples of how "embarrassing bug" is used, in a style which is similar to what is used here: Cloud computing: Amazon suffered a highly embarrassing bug last spring when part of its much vaunted cloud service went down. Client websites such as Quora and Reddit were temporarily forced offline because they relied on Amazon’s servers - The Independent. Microsoft's command-line utility for copying files, 'copy', has an embarrassing bug. If you command it to copy a folder into a new location, it instead copies the contents of the folder, and ignores the folder itself. Therefore, it does what you didn't tell it to do, and doesn't do what you told it to do. Therefore, that is an egregious, unforgivable, and incredibly embarrassing bug for Microsoft. -- http://nicholas.rinard.us/2012/07/embarrassing-bug-for-microsoft.html http://nicholas.rinard.us/2012/07/embarrassing-bug-for-micro... Incrediblly embarrassing bug CS4 -- http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/2/945614 http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/2/945614 (with autosave on, it does not save modified work on exit or ask if the work should be saved) MICROSOFT`s EMBARRASSING BUG -- http://www.cbronline.com/news/microsofts_embarrassing_bug http://www.cbronline.com/news/microsofts_embarrassing_bug (2.01 - 2.00 = 0.00 in pre-Win95 versions of the desktop calculator) As you can see, these aren't all written as PR stunts.

retrogradeorbit 14y ago
To fanboys it's only 'embarrassing' when it's the other sides problem. WWGS? (What would Gruber say?) Also when I used to be a Mac administrator, the Apple private databases/forums would drive me mad. God forbid if you could do a Google search for what you are experiencing and find some discussion! Bugs? What Bugs?

efnx 14y ago

I think you hit the nail on the head. It's a PR stunt. It's an add that essentially says - look how smart we are, and this is our product. I mean no disrespect, but it smells.

anotherbadlogin 14y ago
Nice how my response to this got deleted, HN. Good job once again with your shitty site. There's no evidence that this is a "PR stunt" or that anybody thinks they're so smart. It's a pissed-off developer whose product looks shoddy because of a shoddy Apple product. It's that simple.

taligent 14y ago

Yes. You can report bugs to Apple: http://bugreporter.apple.com http://bugreporter.apple.com It is a web interface for Radar and all bugs are triaged by the dev teams pretty quickly. Unfortunately you can't see outstanding bugs or track their progress.

grinich 14y ago
You should also post to Open Radar, which is for that exact purpose. http://www.openradar.me/ http://www.openradar.me/

ajasmin 14y ago

It's nice to have a blog post and video demonstrating the bug clearly. If I was confronted to this problem trying to save a file, I'd love to find it on Google. I don't really care whether or not they call it embarrassing or use their own product as an example.

kryptiskt 14y ago

Not being able to handle legal file names is pretty embarrassing as bugs go these days. Path name handling is very testable, and a known source of problem since forever.