7 ms·

Hmmm. Only an "idiot" would talk about sales? Patio11 - http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/12/29/bingo-card-creator-and-other-stuff-year-in-review-2012/ http://www.

Hmmm. Only an "idiot" would talk about sales? Patio11 - http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/12/29/bingo-card-creator-and-other-stuff-year-in-review-2012/ http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/12/29/bingo-card-creator-and-o... Nathan Barry - http://nathanbarry.com/2012-year-quitting-job/ http://nathanbarry.com/2012-year-quitting-job/ Brennan Dunn - http://planscope.io/blog/giving-up-a-million-dollar-consultancy/ http://planscope.io/blog/giving-up-a-million-dollar-consulta...

ahoyhere 14y ago
Sad that I'm not "idiot" enough for you to mention! ;)
- mijustin 14y ago
  How could I forget about Amy! She's one of the first people I saw publish her numbers: http://unicornfree.com/2010/i-made-216668-from-products http://unicornfree.com/2010/i-made-216668-from-products
orangethirty 14y ago
A handful of people from thousands who prefer to keep quiet. Plus only those who do talk about them do it to help themselves (as a marketing tool). Any time you talk about amazing sales you risk alerting your competition about your niche.
- tanzam75 14y ago
  Indeed. I read all four of the blog posts. All four of them make the majority of their money from consulting or from training -- books, videos, and workshops -- rather than from products. The split ranges from around 50/50 to almost 90/10. In 2012, Patrick made 20% of his income (not revenues) from products, and 80% of his income from consulting and training, primarily client engagements. (He did not disclose revenues from his second product -- but careful reading of his blog suggests that it probably has not quadrupled his product income.) In 2010, Amy made 32% of her revenues from products, and 68% from consulting and training, primarily workshops. (The 68% has to be split 50/50 with her husband, but even after splitting it in half, it's still 48% vs 52% -- with the majority coming from consulting and training.) In 2012, Nathan made 18% of his revenue from products, and 82% from consulting and training, primarily books. In 2012, Brennan Dunn made 13% of his revenue from products, and 87% from training and consulting, primarily consulting. Interestingly, he took Amy's course and did a 180-degree reversal of direction. They have all discovered that the money is not in gold mining -- or even in selling shovels to the gold miners. It's in giving presentations about gold-mining, and selling videos teaching them how to pan for gold. Patrick wrote about wrestling with his conscience before charging for his expertise, but ultimately discovered that it tripled his income. They have all turned their blogging popularity into cash -- and that's why they continue to blog. The people who are making most of their money from gold-mining are not blogging about the location of their mine.
  - orangethirty 14y ago
    The people who are making most of their money from gold-mining are not blogging about the location of their mine. Perfectly put. But hey, I'm a consultant. I understand why, and how they do it. I'm not knocking on them, because they do provide value and are not scamming anyone.
  - bdunn 14y ago
    Here's what I think is being missed in this discussion: Product != Software People buy software because they desire some intended outcome. For instance, I recently switched to Xero because emailing spreadsheets of categorizations back and forth to my accountant is messy and frustrating. And I might buy a book on bookkeeping because I suck at it. Or a course on cashflow because I never learned how to properly budget. I think if you were to ask me, Patrick, Amy, Nathan, etc... if we see a huge difference between, say, a SaaS product we run and a workshop we teach, we wouldn't. The goal's the same: make someone better off than they were before. It's really frustrating, but understandable on HN, to see people downplay products that aren't software. When writing Planscope, my goal was to help increase project transparency between consultants and their clients. After talking with many customres, I realized a large number of them needed help on something much more foundational to their business: how to price. So I built another product that helped people with that. (Also, I honestly don't think that posting some — hopefully helpful — content on what I learned in trying to sell a book is going to result in "Double UR Freelancing Ratez" coming out and crushing my sales anytime soon.)
    - tanzam75 14y ago
      That's exactly my point. You've chosen to be in a business where blogging doesn't hurt you -- and in fact, it helps you. As for giving non-software its due, that's a different discussion altogether. I was commenting on a post that talked about receiving $20 in the mail for shareware, on a thread that talked about the situation being tougher than in "box software's heyday."
      - ahoyhere 14y ago
        "You've chosen to be in a business where blogging doesn't hurt you -- and in fact, it helps you." How is this different than any other business? Sure, what Brennan blogs about attracts his customers. But it can and no doubt will attract other people like him as well. What's stopping his competitors, or potential competitors, from copying what he's doing… of using his revenue posts as proof of market?
- HeyLaughingBoy 14y ago
  Not sure I understand that logic. If you are selling to a niche, then by definition your competition is also. If you mean a narrower niche than you and your competition already share, then it's very unlikely that they also don't know about it or won't soon regardless of you talking about it. The only way this statement seems true is for a very loose definition of "competition." But I would love to be shown I'm wrong.
  - orangethirty 14y ago
    You don't talk about how profitable a given niche is to you because then your competition will just outright copy, and or do negative things to you. Its like walking inside a cage of sleeping bears. You don't want to wake them up.

ahoyhere 14y ago

Sad that I'm not "idiot" enough for you to mention! ;)

mijustin 14y ago
How could I forget about Amy! She's one of the first people I saw publish her numbers: http://unicornfree.com/2010/i-made-216668-from-products http://unicornfree.com/2010/i-made-216668-from-products

orangethirty 14y ago

A handful of people from thousands who prefer to keep quiet. Plus only those who do talk about them do it to help themselves (as a marketing tool). Any time you talk about amazing sales you risk alerting your competition about your niche.

tanzam75 14y ago
Indeed. I read all four of the blog posts. All four of them make the majority of their money from consulting or from training -- books, videos, and workshops -- rather than from products. The split ranges from around 50/50 to almost 90/10. In 2012, Patrick made 20% of his income (not revenues) from products, and 80% of his income from consulting and training, primarily client engagements. (He did not disclose revenues from his second product -- but careful reading of his blog suggests that it probably has not quadrupled his product income.) In 2010, Amy made 32% of her revenues from products, and 68% from consulting and training, primarily workshops. (The 68% has to be split 50/50 with her husband, but even after splitting it in half, it's still 48% vs 52% -- with the majority coming from consulting and training.) In 2012, Nathan made 18% of his revenue from products, and 82% from consulting and training, primarily books. In 2012, Brennan Dunn made 13% of his revenue from products, and 87% from training and consulting, primarily consulting. Interestingly, he took Amy's course and did a 180-degree reversal of direction. They have all discovered that the money is not in gold mining -- or even in selling shovels to the gold miners. It's in giving presentations about gold-mining, and selling videos teaching them how to pan for gold. Patrick wrote about wrestling with his conscience before charging for his expertise, but ultimately discovered that it tripled his income. They have all turned their blogging popularity into cash -- and that's why they continue to blog. The people who are making most of their money from gold-mining are not blogging about the location of their mine.
- orangethirty 14y ago
  The people who are making most of their money from gold-mining are not blogging about the location of their mine. Perfectly put. But hey, I'm a consultant. I understand why, and how they do it. I'm not knocking on them, because they do provide value and are not scamming anyone.
- bdunn 14y ago
  Here's what I think is being missed in this discussion: Product != Software People buy software because they desire some intended outcome. For instance, I recently switched to Xero because emailing spreadsheets of categorizations back and forth to my accountant is messy and frustrating. And I might buy a book on bookkeeping because I suck at it. Or a course on cashflow because I never learned how to properly budget. I think if you were to ask me, Patrick, Amy, Nathan, etc... if we see a huge difference between, say, a SaaS product we run and a workshop we teach, we wouldn't. The goal's the same: make someone better off than they were before. It's really frustrating, but understandable on HN, to see people downplay products that aren't software. When writing Planscope, my goal was to help increase project transparency between consultants and their clients. After talking with many customres, I realized a large number of them needed help on something much more foundational to their business: how to price. So I built another product that helped people with that. (Also, I honestly don't think that posting some — hopefully helpful — content on what I learned in trying to sell a book is going to result in "Double UR Freelancing Ratez" coming out and crushing my sales anytime soon.)
  - tanzam75 14y ago
    That's exactly my point. You've chosen to be in a business where blogging doesn't hurt you -- and in fact, it helps you. As for giving non-software its due, that's a different discussion altogether. I was commenting on a post that talked about receiving $20 in the mail for shareware, on a thread that talked about the situation being tougher than in "box software's heyday."
    - ahoyhere 14y ago
      "You've chosen to be in a business where blogging doesn't hurt you -- and in fact, it helps you." How is this different than any other business? Sure, what Brennan blogs about attracts his customers. But it can and no doubt will attract other people like him as well. What's stopping his competitors, or potential competitors, from copying what he's doing… of using his revenue posts as proof of market?
HeyLaughingBoy 14y ago
Not sure I understand that logic. If you are selling to a niche, then by definition your competition is also. If you mean a narrower niche than you and your competition already share, then it's very unlikely that they also don't know about it or won't soon regardless of you talking about it. The only way this statement seems true is for a very loose definition of "competition." But I would love to be shown I'm wrong.
- orangethirty 14y ago
  You don't talk about how profitable a given niche is to you because then your competition will just outright copy, and or do negative things to you. Its like walking inside a cage of sleeping bears. You don't want to wake them up.