5 ms·

The solution to this is to find a whole bunch of DHS employees who feel that these seizures are unjust and who are authorized to perform seizures themselves. Th

by biot 14y ago

The solution to this is to find a whole bunch of DHS employees who feel that these seizures are unjust and who are authorized to perform seizures themselves. Then have them go around rampantly seizing as much as they can from as many high-profile people as they can. Seize the devices from judges, lawyers, congress members, TV reporters, actors, children, and so on. Only by flagrantly exercising the "rights" the DHS claims they have will sanity ultimately prevail. They may lose their jobs, but I'm sure there's people willing to make that small sacrifice for defending liberty.

FireBeyond 14y ago
"They may lose their jobs, but I'm sure there's people willing to make that small sacrifice for defending liberty." Are you? It's remarkably easy to say that getting fired from your job to make a point is but a "small sacrifice" when it's not your job, your livelihood, your family and/or home on the line. If it's such a small sacrifice, perhaps some people could game the system - apply for a job with DHS (they're hiring! https://dhs.usajobs.gov/JobSearch/Search/GetResults?Keyword=border&Location=&search.x=-1475&search.y=-403&search=Search%21&AutoCompleteSelected=False https://dhs.usajobs.gov/JobSearch/Search/GetResults?Keyword=...), and do this to make a point. In fact, I volunteer you for this noble, but small, sacrifice, that you're so willing to suggest others do.
- biot 14y ago
  I'm not American but if I were and working at the DHS already and hated where things have been going, then for sure I would. I spent some time in the reserves knowing full well that I could be called to defend my country with my life. How utterly trivial in comparison losing one's job is. I wouldn't recommend it for someone with a family, kids, and a mortgage but if you're young and single, why not? Who cares about keeping a job that consists of depriving your fellow citizens of their constitutional rights?
  - freddealmeida 14y ago
    I'm not sure some one like that would actually work in the DHS. It would be anathema to them. Is it possible to sue them for this? Even if you yourself have not yet had your rights removed?
- gcb0 14y ago
  Why apply? Just get a name tag. If you want to confirm acop id you know where to call/go... With a dhs employee, you don't.
noonespecial 14y ago
There's the problem exactly. You've got rights with that constitution thingee and all, but the system's now set up so that (even successfully) exercising those rights will cost you everything you have (and increasingly everything you're ever going to have).
- rayiner 14y ago
  > system's now set up The system has always been set up this way. There is a reason that the Founders were wealthy merchants, lawyers, and plantation owners, rather than workaday stiffs dependent on a paycheck.
  - noonespecial 14y ago
    The founders knew they were such and actually had a go at giving the workaday stiff a fighting chance. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like it worked out as well as they'd hoped.
    - rayiner 14y ago
      The founders didn't even make provision for non-landowning white males to vote, much less anyone else.
      - burntsushi 14y ago
        As if the only thing stopping the Founders was to merely encode it into the Constitution and be done with it.
        yareally 14y ago
        Yeah, many people forget that the US was at the time a very divided place* and what resulted in the Constitution was a compromise that no one really liked (in that no one got everything they wanted), but everyone agreed upon. The founders in the North, such as John Adams[1], were against slavery, while ones in the South were either indifferent/paradoxical or outright advocated for it. The fact it took hundreds of thousands of lives to unite us around 70 years later is a consequence of one of those great divisors. Even as progressive as the United States was at the time (compared to the rest of the European World), comparing our own ideas of freedom and equality to those of the late 18th century in a young nation with many people more concerned with living than education is kind of a fallacy. I think most of the founders thought the issue of slavery would die out on its own in the next couple generations, but unfortunately, the cotton gin came along 30 or so years later and made it profitable once again. I do wonder if it had been known that such an invention would come about a short time later if that would have changed the way the constitution was written. *Many were also flat out against a constitution because they felt it gave the federal government too much power. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Adams#Constitutional_ideas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Adams#Constitutional_ideas

by biot 14y ago

FireBeyond 14y ago

"They may lose their jobs, but I'm sure there's people willing to make that small sacrifice for defending liberty." Are you? It's remarkably easy to say that getting fired from your job to make a point is but a "small sacrifice" when it's not your job, your livelihood, your family and/or home on the line. If it's such a small sacrifice, perhaps some people could game the system - apply for a job with DHS (they're hiring! https://dhs.usajobs.gov/JobSearch/Search/GetResults?Keyword=border&Location=&search.x=-1475&search.y=-403&search=Search%21&AutoCompleteSelected=False https://dhs.usajobs.gov/JobSearch/Search/GetResults?Keyword=...), and do this to make a point. In fact, I volunteer you for this noble, but small, sacrifice, that you're so willing to suggest others do.

biot 14y ago
I'm not American but if I were and working at the DHS already and hated where things have been going, then for sure I would. I spent some time in the reserves knowing full well that I could be called to defend my country with my life. How utterly trivial in comparison losing one's job is. I wouldn't recommend it for someone with a family, kids, and a mortgage but if you're young and single, why not? Who cares about keeping a job that consists of depriving your fellow citizens of their constitutional rights?
- freddealmeida 14y ago
  I'm not sure some one like that would actually work in the DHS. It would be anathema to them. Is it possible to sue them for this? Even if you yourself have not yet had your rights removed?
gcb0 14y ago
Why apply? Just get a name tag. If you want to confirm acop id you know where to call/go... With a dhs employee, you don't.

noonespecial 14y ago

There's the problem exactly. You've got rights with that constitution thingee and all, but the system's now set up so that (even successfully) exercising those rights will cost you everything you have (and increasingly everything you're ever going to have).

rayiner 14y ago
> system's now set up The system has always been set up this way. There is a reason that the Founders were wealthy merchants, lawyers, and plantation owners, rather than workaday stiffs dependent on a paycheck.
- noonespecial 14y ago
  The founders knew they were such and actually had a go at giving the workaday stiff a fighting chance. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like it worked out as well as they'd hoped.
  - rayiner 14y ago
    The founders didn't even make provision for non-landowning white males to vote, much less anyone else.
    - burntsushi 14y ago
      As if the only thing stopping the Founders was to merely encode it into the Constitution and be done with it.
      - yareally 14y ago
        Yeah, many people forget that the US was at the time a very divided place* and what resulted in the Constitution was a compromise that no one really liked (in that no one got everything they wanted), but everyone agreed upon. The founders in the North, such as John Adams[1], were against slavery, while ones in the South were either indifferent/paradoxical or outright advocated for it. The fact it took hundreds of thousands of lives to unite us around 70 years later is a consequence of one of those great divisors. Even as progressive as the United States was at the time (compared to the rest of the European World), comparing our own ideas of freedom and equality to those of the late 18th century in a young nation with many people more concerned with living than education is kind of a fallacy. I think most of the founders thought the issue of slavery would die out on its own in the next couple generations, but unfortunately, the cotton gin came along 30 or so years later and made it profitable once again. I do wonder if it had been known that such an invention would come about a short time later if that would have changed the way the constitution was written. *Many were also flat out against a constitution because they felt it gave the federal government too much power. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Adams#Constitutional_ideas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Adams#Constitutional_ideas