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Sigh, this comment makes me kind of sad. It shows a lack of understanding of the tinkerer/hacker mindset. People enjoy doing what they're told not to. Half t

Sigh, this comment makes me kind of sad. It shows a lack of understanding of the tinkerer/hacker mindset. People enjoy doing what they're told not to. Half the fun of owning an Android phone is overhauling the UI, flashing a completely different ROM, and over clocking it to test its limits. Sure, you could just buy a phone and be done with it, but why? Isn't it fun to which your tech speed up, be altered, and even sometimes break? It's the feeling that you're making it YOURS. Not to mention that you learn so, so much in the process. Remember, hacking isn't about making something that everyone will use. If so, then why aren't hackers making Angry Birds or Microsoft Word? Hacking is about pushing the boundaries, sharpening your skills, and hopefully learning in the process. If I were to make an AppleTV app(liance) that I really liked and put it online for 3 people to download then I would be happy. That's 3 people's AppleTV's who are better due to my hobby; isn't that great? Also, please note that I never meant to "act like you're an idiot." I disagree with your viewpoints but I'm sure you're intelligent; you come to HN, don't you? :) I'm just tired of people who complain about Apple's "closed ecosystem" and then turn around and suggest an Android system which usually involves rooting (Android's "jailbreak") and flashing a custom ROM. Android actually is more involved than jailbreaking an iPhone is as far as time, energy, and scope go. I apologize if I took my frustration out on you but this whole "anti-tinkering mentality" that's being spread solely because people dislike Apple is getting to me. Technology should be about having fun using and abusing your systems!

drivebyacct2 14y ago
> I'm just tired of people who complain about Apple's "closed ecosystem" and then turn around and suggest an Android system which usually involves rooting (Android's "jailbreak") and flashing a custom ROM. Android actually is more involved than jailbreaking an iPhone is as far as time, energy, and scope go. Nothing about creating an app for Android or GoogleTV requires any of those things. "Jailbreaking" my phone involved plugging it in and typing two solitary commands. On my old phone it involved three. The Android set top boxes come with root out of the box and have no signature protection in recovery. I understand the tinkering mindset, I assure you.
- smith7018 14y ago
  Well, jailbreaking an iDevice usually takes one click or a visit to a website. I was just noting that many people forget that "rooting" is, in principal, the exact same as jailbreaking.
  - drivebyacct2 14y ago
    For very creative definitions of "usually". I watch the iOS jailbreak scene as most of my friends have such devices. Exploits that easy haven't been around for a while now. This conversation is quickly becoming pointless anyway. It is amusing however to watch my karma bobble with intervals of 4 as people vote enmasse by username.
  - mikeash 14y ago
    Jailbreaking is not nearly as easy as you make it out to be, and you don't do anybody any good by exaggerating it like that. A viable jailbreak for iOS 6 has only just become available, and all indications are that it will stop working with 6.1.3. Maintaining a jailbroken device is requires fairly substantial effort and research, and extreme care when it comes to OS updates and device restores.
    - smith7018 14y ago
      I didn't mean to make jailbreaking sound "easy" or exaggerate the effort involved but my point still stands; to jailbreak iOS, the end user only really needs to do one step. Sure, there are versions without jailbreaks and there are updates you can't use but that's beyond my point. I never said that jailbreaking an iDevice is easy for every version and that it's permanent; I said that only one button is needed to jailbreak a device. Remember, there are Android devices that can't be rooted, flashed, or updated, too. Risking the loss of updates comes with the territory of hacking any device (see Xbox 360, PS3, Hackint0shes, and more). If you're talking about the exploits themselves, then I'd just like to say that I've watched the method to jailbreak progress from "one symlinked folder" to "6 kernel and user land level exploits." Discussing the complexities of how a jailbreak is achieved is beyond the scope of what I was saying, though.

drivebyacct2 14y ago

> I'm just tired of people who complain about Apple's "closed ecosystem" and then turn around and suggest an Android system which usually involves rooting (Android's "jailbreak") and flashing a custom ROM. Android actually is more involved than jailbreaking an iPhone is as far as time, energy, and scope go. Nothing about creating an app for Android or GoogleTV requires any of those things. "Jailbreaking" my phone involved plugging it in and typing two solitary commands. On my old phone it involved three. The Android set top boxes come with root out of the box and have no signature protection in recovery. I understand the tinkering mindset, I assure you.

smith7018 14y ago
Well, jailbreaking an iDevice usually takes one click or a visit to a website. I was just noting that many people forget that "rooting" is, in principal, the exact same as jailbreaking.
- drivebyacct2 14y ago
  For very creative definitions of "usually". I watch the iOS jailbreak scene as most of my friends have such devices. Exploits that easy haven't been around for a while now. This conversation is quickly becoming pointless anyway. It is amusing however to watch my karma bobble with intervals of 4 as people vote enmasse by username.
- mikeash 14y ago
  Jailbreaking is not nearly as easy as you make it out to be, and you don't do anybody any good by exaggerating it like that. A viable jailbreak for iOS 6 has only just become available, and all indications are that it will stop working with 6.1.3. Maintaining a jailbroken device is requires fairly substantial effort and research, and extreme care when it comes to OS updates and device restores.
  - smith7018 14y ago
    I didn't mean to make jailbreaking sound "easy" or exaggerate the effort involved but my point still stands; to jailbreak iOS, the end user only really needs to do one step. Sure, there are versions without jailbreaks and there are updates you can't use but that's beyond my point. I never said that jailbreaking an iDevice is easy for every version and that it's permanent; I said that only one button is needed to jailbreak a device. Remember, there are Android devices that can't be rooted, flashed, or updated, too. Risking the loss of updates comes with the territory of hacking any device (see Xbox 360, PS3, Hackint0shes, and more). If you're talking about the exploits themselves, then I'd just like to say that I've watched the method to jailbreak progress from "one symlinked folder" to "6 kernel and user land level exploits." Discussing the complexities of how a jailbreak is achieved is beyond the scope of what I was saying, though.