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I don't take the driver situation into consideration and it seems that Ubuntu is contacting closed source manufactures to allow driver support for mir. I like

I don't take the driver situation into consideration and it seems that Ubuntu is contacting closed source manufactures to allow driver support for mir. I like your scenario because I believe a interesting element is that Valve is trying to port most of its Steam games to Ubuntu and they do have muscle with Nvidia and AMD. And with the rumours that the steambox called Piston would be based on Ubuntu. So in my opinion it looks bad for distro's not using mir and good for distro's using mir. If that is a good thing altogether is another debate. And as mentioned above profesional game development to Ubuntu is coming at a rapid pace. Maybe at the price of another horrible fragmentation as you call it.

shmerl 14y ago
I don't consider Ubuntu usurping the focus of game development and drivers a good thing. And notion like "using Mir - good for you, not using Mir - too bad, no drivers" doesn't sound good as well. Ubuntu is already quite isolationist. This will only make matters worse.
- oneweekwonder 14y ago
  Why would you say Ubuntu is taking game or driver development by force or illegally? As far as I can tell there is no other competition in this space, so it is actually very open and its not like Ubuntu is not willing to share. I agree with the notion, but we still need to see if it will play out that way. For now its only on the table, with a lot of other cards we are not even aware of.
  - shmerl 14y ago
    I didn't say anything about "illegally". It's all open - "do what you want". It's the question whether it benefits the global Linux community, or creates unnecessary internal competition / fragmentation and spreading of resources. Competition for drivers can start (if they won't be compatible), look at Android targeted hardware and see how sick it is now (it's SurfaceFlinger only, try getting Wayland drivers and good luck with that). We don't need the same story repeated with Mir.
    - oneweekwonder 14y ago
      Sorry I did a define on usurping and ended up being pedantic because I don't believe its true. I understand all the concerns about how it will impact the global community; But isn't it generally seen that competition is good, and who's resources is it spreading or fragmenting? * A distribution who tries to cater to everyone? * Other companies employees who now need to understand and support technology it doesn't want to use? * "Linux" users in double quotes because they want to be able to administrate all their different boxes with different distro's using the same old tools of 20 years ago? * FOSS coders who spend their free time fixing bugs and adding features to projects they like and use? Call me ignorent and please point out why. But I don't see any of the above as resource issues. The only problem is the "Linux" users and I feel if they start to see themselves as distro's users instead of a name given to a Kernel and Foundation, that problem will sort it self out. By your account it seems like it already started and Ubuntu might be able to bring in a second or third option. By the looks of it the greater community wanted Ubuntu to rather spend time in bending tools to do what it needs to do, to benefit the community. Without realising Ubuntu is a product of a company that has goals and can not always take the long road of community inputs, but at least it tries do be open as much as it can. Which gets criticized a lot because it is a leader in a "linux" environment it mostly created from scratch.
      - shmerl 14y ago
        Competition is good when there is choice, i.e. when there is actual competition. When this plays out as an edge case (i.e. monopoly like situation) i.e. stuff like "SurfaceFlinger only" or "Mir only" - it's not good. Canonical draws its success on the community (Debian and others). With that, being selfish and isolationist, while at the same time claiming to be "the Linux" is not considered respectful. I personally avoid Canonical/Ubuntu because of that.

shmerl 14y ago

I don't consider Ubuntu usurping the focus of game development and drivers a good thing. And notion like "using Mir - good for you, not using Mir - too bad, no drivers" doesn't sound good as well. Ubuntu is already quite isolationist. This will only make matters worse.

oneweekwonder 14y ago
Why would you say Ubuntu is taking game or driver development by force or illegally? As far as I can tell there is no other competition in this space, so it is actually very open and its not like Ubuntu is not willing to share. I agree with the notion, but we still need to see if it will play out that way. For now its only on the table, with a lot of other cards we are not even aware of.
- shmerl 14y ago
  I didn't say anything about "illegally". It's all open - "do what you want". It's the question whether it benefits the global Linux community, or creates unnecessary internal competition / fragmentation and spreading of resources. Competition for drivers can start (if they won't be compatible), look at Android targeted hardware and see how sick it is now (it's SurfaceFlinger only, try getting Wayland drivers and good luck with that). We don't need the same story repeated with Mir.
  - oneweekwonder 14y ago
    Sorry I did a define on usurping and ended up being pedantic because I don't believe its true. I understand all the concerns about how it will impact the global community; But isn't it generally seen that competition is good, and who's resources is it spreading or fragmenting? * A distribution who tries to cater to everyone? * Other companies employees who now need to understand and support technology it doesn't want to use? * "Linux" users in double quotes because they want to be able to administrate all their different boxes with different distro's using the same old tools of 20 years ago? * FOSS coders who spend their free time fixing bugs and adding features to projects they like and use? Call me ignorent and please point out why. But I don't see any of the above as resource issues. The only problem is the "Linux" users and I feel if they start to see themselves as distro's users instead of a name given to a Kernel and Foundation, that problem will sort it self out. By your account it seems like it already started and Ubuntu might be able to bring in a second or third option. By the looks of it the greater community wanted Ubuntu to rather spend time in bending tools to do what it needs to do, to benefit the community. Without realising Ubuntu is a product of a company that has goals and can not always take the long road of community inputs, but at least it tries do be open as much as it can. Which gets criticized a lot because it is a leader in a "linux" environment it mostly created from scratch.
    - shmerl 14y ago
      Competition is good when there is choice, i.e. when there is actual competition. When this plays out as an edge case (i.e. monopoly like situation) i.e. stuff like "SurfaceFlinger only" or "Mir only" - it's not good. Canonical draws its success on the community (Debian and others). With that, being selfish and isolationist, while at the same time claiming to be "the Linux" is not considered respectful. I personally avoid Canonical/Ubuntu because of that.