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Why Are All My Friends Moving to Oakland?
- bitcartel 14y agoOne-word Summary: Rent
- dasil003 14y agoYes, I love the punchline at the end. You don't leave Manhattan and you don't leave SF if you have good rent control.
- MichaelApproved 14y agoI thought the major problem with SF isn't lack of rent control but the inability to build up. Don't they have a lot of laws preventing larger/taller apartment complexes? Get more renters into an area and the rent should control and stabilize itself better. I'm not too informed about this so please correct me if I'm wrong.
- rdouble 14y agoThat is part of the problem. But largely it's just because it's a desirable place to live. Manhattan has plenty of residential skyscrapers and that hasn't made rent go down.
- gokulk 14y agoFrankly move somewhere down south like San Mateo. Some parts of Oakland are dangerous and home invasions are quite common unless the community has hired private guards.
- CamperBob2 14y agoNot only that, but the police don't give a rat's ass about anything but their own contract negotiations.
- fennecfoxen 14y agoI wouldn't care for living in San Mateo myself (I just evacuated the Bay Area for Brooklyn) but I can confirm that there's some really good quality, affordable food to be had there, both downtown and in a little cluster near El Camino and 25th or thereabouts. Little Shanghai may not be the best Shanghaiese-style Chinese restaurant in the bay area, but there pretty darned good, and will serve you lunch for like $5...
- ebiester 14y agoSan Mateo is nearly as expensive as SF, boring for anyone under 40, and impossible to navigate without a car. (Some of us would rather walk 20 minutes than drive 20 minutes.) I strongly considered moving there, but I couldn't find anywhere worth living near San Mateo downtown for the price that I could find somewhere in SF, and my job provides a bus from SF anyways. I think it comes down to suburban living versus urban living. There are people who prefer each.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- hyperbovine 14y agoEast Bay pride! You couldn't pay me enough to live in the city.
- rdouble 14y agoMy usual suggestion to my Oakland bound artist friends is to move to Los Angeles.
- jupiterjaz 14y agoHere's an idea. Allow people to build more buildings in San Francisco.
- obviouslygreen 14y agoHere's another idea. California is not the be-all end-all of technology or employment, and spreading the love around -- to places that already have good tech scenes but are largely ignored by the media -- will not only get the seeker a higher quality of living for the money, but might also eventually result in the US west coast mellowing out rather than hogging all the pretense.
- suyash 14y agoyup, what not start more companies and keep them in Oakland area
- empthought 14y agoThat sounds like a great idea -- more lives lost when the Big One hits!
- fghh45sdfhr3 14y agoBecause the big one will not affect the rest of California?
- empthought 14y agoI'll see you down in Arizona Bay, I guess. Though the Bay Area does have the recent earthquake track record that Southern California doesn't. The brute fact of the matter is that it's the height of human folly that people are moving into this area: http://earthquake.usgs.gov/regional/nca/ucerf/ http://earthquake.usgs.gov/regional/nca/ucerf/
- mahyarm 14y agoDowntown Vancouver disagrees with you: https://encrypted.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=downtown%20vancouver&tbs=imgo:1&biw=1440&bih=828&sei=JGw1UayGL-3iyAGpu4DwBw https://encrypted.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=downtown%...
- gamblor956 14y agoOakland's not that bad. It gets a bad rap, but most of the crime is highly localized to a few precincts...just like in every other metropolis in the world, SF and NY included.
- meaydinli 14y agoWhich precincts/neighborhoods would you say one should stay away from? Where are the safest places to rent?
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- gamblor956 14y agoIt's been a while since I lived there myself, but the areas next to Lake Merrit and Jack London Square are very nice and generally quite safe. My brother used to live in Lake Merrit until last year and loved it.
- joshAg 14y agoHere's a horribly generalized, bound to insult many people, but still relatively accurate stereotype: there are 4 good neighborhoods in oakland, 3 of which are affordable. The oakland hills are very nice and very expensive. The three affordable neighborhoods are around jack london square, around lake merritt, and around college ave near the berkeley-oakland border.
- stevenspasbo 14y agoRockridge is safe, but more expensive than the rest of Oakland. I was paying 1700 for a one bedroom in a duplex. I recently moved to Adams Point and it's nice, I actually feel safer walking around here because there's always people around, and it's much livelier compared to Rockridge, and we were able to get a larger one bedroom for about $500 cheaper.
- fennecfoxen 14y agoYeah, but the commute to your south bay technology job is even more insayne.
- leed25d 14y agobecause they do not want to pay 10 cents for a bag every time they go shopping?
- madcaptenor 14y agoOakland has a bag fee now. That's a reason to move to the Peninsula. (I live in San Francisco but the most convenient supermarket for me is the Safeway in Daly City. I keep wanting to hoard bags from them.)
- mahyarm 14y agoMountain View will start having a bag fee on earth day (april) too, and plastic bags will be banned outright. I think the entire bay area will start having a bag fee soon enough, since the community flyer that I read it in said it was county or multi-county initiative.
- nuclear_eclipse 14y agoSame with San Mateo now, and I think Foster City.
- malyk 14y agoThat is true in oakland too. Or actually, maybe it's berkeley. it's tough to know living on the border!
- Sanddancer 14y agoIt's for all of Alameda county.
- jamesaguilar 14y agoWhat a trivial reason that would be to move.
- leed25d 14y ago
- malyk 14y agoMy wife and I moved to Oakland in October. The reasons we moved were basically: - We wanted more interior space. Our SF loft was awesome, but was one giant room, and we wanted to be able to have guests and give them (and us) some privacy. - We wanted outdoor space. And not public outdoor space. We wanted space for us. To plant a garden. To bbq. To entertain. To sit in the sun. - Our rent was increased from $2200 -> $2400 -> $2650 and we bought a house with a mortgage payment of $2072. Those are the big ones. We both absolutely love SF, but we couldn't find a place to rent for a reasonable price with 2 bedrooms and an outdoor space that wasn't perpetually fogged in for what we pay now. We are both very happy that we made the move. There are drawbacks like using the car a lot more and having a longer and more expensive commute, but overall it's been great for us.
- killion 14y agoIf you are working in SF casual carpool is a great option for Oaklanders and is free. http://www.ridenow.org/carpool/ http://www.ridenow.org/carpool/
- malyk 14y agoYup, great if it works for you and is convenient. My wife and I have folding bikes that we use to bike to BART (closer than any casual carpool pickup). When we lived in SF my wife walked to work and I took a bus. So our daily commute cost was $4. Now we both bart both directions and it's roughly $14 a day. $300 more expensive than before, but still less than our monthly rent was when you add it to our mortgage.
- cpursley 14y agoYes, but not by much - and you're not considering your travel time. Multiply that lost time by your hourly wage and see how its adds up.
- inafield 14y agoIf you're on salary or your boss won't pay you for hours past 8 hours, then that equation does not work. It only matters if the time lost could have actually resulted in you being paid that amount of money. Unpaid time is still unpaid time regardless of where you spend it. Not all potentially free time results in being paid.
- seanmccann 14y agoThis seems like "My friends say the're moving to Oakland because they are confused and think The Mission = San Francisco"
- mey 14y agoMost of this is why I moved to Portland OR from Boston. Edit: Granted this involved a move back to Boston re-cementing my opinions.
- obviouslygreen 14y agoIt's not exactly generous of me, but as a midwesterner, I find this kind of thing morosely comical. While I understand that everyone has their own issues and there's no good reason to discount them out of hand, it's hard not to raise my eyebrows a bit at some of the 'problems' Californians advertise. We call our version of that White People Problems, but I suppose that might be considered offensive in other places now...
- pstuart 14y agoThe PC wording is "First World Problems".
- obviouslygreen 14y agoHaha, thanks; I knew there was something more appropriate there. One reason I love living where I do, though, is that almost no one gives a rat's ass about political correctness... even the minorities. :)
- eaurouge 14y agoI bet you that's not true. Where do you live?
- obviouslygreen 14y agoThe only reason I'm not going to answer this is that it'd start a pedantic debate that's not worth having. Suffice to say that I have friends who are first-generation immigrants from South Korea, Ghana, Japan, Mexico, and Italy, and none of them are as reactionary about racial slurs as your average white American. Don't bet about things you don't understand. You and I could live next door to each other and have totally different experiences; many of my neighbors are Somali and they'd certainly have mixed interpretations. Basically... it's not as simple as either of us has made it out to be, but it helps no one to turn it into a debate that can't end well.
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- tikhonj 14y agoIf you're going to move to the East Bay, why Oakland in particular? What about Berkeley, for example? Or some of the other little towns around here? Of course, I'm a student right now and pretty biased, but I'd prefer living in a college town no matter what. Also a good reason to move to Palo Alto, but that's obviously appealing to a very different crowd than those considering Oakland.
- rdouble 14y agoOakland is much cheaper. Berkeley is as expensive as SF. What do you mean by some of the other little towns? There aren't any "other little towns." Alameda?
- killion 14y agoOddly enough the weather in Oakland is slightly better than Berkeley because of the fog-break that SF provides.
- sybhn 14y agoAren't Oakland schools horrible? You guys care about your kids education right?
- GuiA 14y agoA lot of people on HN don't have kids :)
- olivier1664 14y agoReally?
- encoderer 14y agoAre you being facetious? Obviously private schools are an option. Along with just not having kids, or moving when the oldest closes in on the big 05. We live in Hayes Valley right now and public schools in SF aren't all that better than those in Oakland. When we have kids, we'll optimize for that.
- sybhn 14y agoI did not mean to. I didn't see much if any consideration about schools in the article and maybe jumped the gun assuming the schools selection is better in SF. Although not as flashy, the peninsula is a great compromise.
- joshAg 14y agobased on housing prices in the bay area, it might be better to use a private school instead of moving to a good school district.
- sybhn 14y agoIs it really? I always though the main financial difference between going for (1) a good school district or a (2) private school is the residual value of the investment. At the end of the 15 or so period, you have built equity in a property for the latter, but not the former. Now if the private school is cheap enough you might end up with the equity in your pocket. There are other considerations of course, such has the safety of your neighborhood, neighbor's kids, etc.
- onemorepassword 14y agoSame thing happens all over the Western world. The problem isn't that the cycle repeats itself elsewhere, the problem is that most of the time it doesn't. If the "refugees" from the Big City aren't followed by people that bring real money (and thus all the "horrors" of gentrification), at best the new location stops developing, at worst the whole thing collapses under the influx of newcomers without having the money to handle the increased pressure on the social and economic infrastructure that was in relatively fragile state to begin with. It may be a great adventure for young people that are very mobile, but I wouldn't start buying property in Oakland just yet...
- rdouble 14y agoThe plan B gentrification destinations don't collapse, they just stay in a state of half-gentrification forever. Oakland, Jersey City, Northeast Minneapolis, etc. They have been the next hot place to live for the past 20 years.
- empthought 14y agoSpeaking of the Bay Area, I don't give a shit about the Bay Area.
- DaniFong 14y agoI live in Oakland downtown, in a firehouse commune with a bunch of other physical technology entrepreneurs/researchers. It is great. Machine shop is in the garage; walking Lake Merritt (the closest thing to a diverse, integrated utopia I know of in California...) and jack london square is lovely, easy access to the bart. The area around Lake Merritt and the Lake Merritt bart (where we are) is safe. Art murmur is a ton of fun, and the restaurants are great (Tamarindo, Trappist, Boca Nova, Chop Bar, Arizimendi, Cana are favorites).
- suyash 14y ago(Some silly additions) Because: 1. San Francisco charges for street parking on Sunday's now :( 2. If you work downtown/fin dist, commute is better on the BART than taking MUNI 3. If you're Warrior's / Raider's fan living in SF and hating on the Giants/49ers fans. 4. There is no Walmart in SF but there one in Oakland
- newman314 14y agoI see red about that Sunday parking thing. It caught me unawares since I already try to avoid SF in general. But that's just ridiculous. It's stupid a city that size needs a budget the size of Chicago's and still need yet more $$$
- ereckers 14y agoWhen there's a snazzy infographic like blog post about moving to Oakland to escape the gentrification of San Francisco, you've just jumped from the fire to the frying pan.
- krallja 14y agoWho gives half a shit about Oakland? This is not Hacker News— it's Bay Area Real Estate News.
- VonGuard 14y agoI've lived in Oakland since 2001. It's great. It's gritty. It's awesome and seeing huge growth in downtown. BUT! It is now the #3 most expensive city for rent in the US. I know, crazy right? But rent went up 11% last year alone. Oakland won't be the cheaper alternative for long. Indeed, most of my SF friends who moved to the Beast (East Bay is pig latin for Beast) recently are actually moving to Alameda Island. Still, Oakland is the only city in the Americas with a dedicated, open to the public Videogame museum! http://www.themade.org http://www.themade.org
- killion 14y agoThe tax situation for startups in Oakland is pretty similar to the incentives that SF created in mid-market. Office space is cheaper and more plentiful. There are less resources available like other startups, but they are only a 20 minute Bart ride away.
- lurkinggrue 14y agoShould move to Portland. The dream of the 90s is still alive in Portland.
- nacker 14y agoAnd don't forget, Oakland is at the forefront of the anarchist revolution! It's the new Wild West! "Oakland’s crime problems have gotten so bad that some people aren’t even bothering to call the cops anymore; instead, they’re trying to solve and prevent crimes themselves." http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2013/02/26/arcadia-park-residents-policing-their-streets-as-they-lose-faith-in-opd/#.UTAyHnKsU2I.twitter http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2013/02/26/arcadia-park-res...
- edgrimley 14y agoI wonder if we'll see an influx of startups to the Oakland area? We chose to locate the Bay Area office of our NY-based product design/dev studio Cainkade in Oakland for a variety of reasons. 1. Value. As a bootstrapped services business I couldn't fathom paying 2-5x more to have 2-5x less space in SF. 2. Commute. Bay Area principles are happily living in the east bay and sought reasonable commutes. 3. Location as differentiation. I had a theory that the thousands of people on the BART platforms each morning might be interested in a shorter commute. As we've started hiring, this theory has been proven out. There's a large pool of professional, mature tech workers out there who would love to shorten their commute. Location for us has been an asset, helping us stand out from other companies. There are lots of empty storefronts and spaces here. For those that are complaining about Oakland's gentrification, I would say it is still very, very early. Some other experiences from working/running a business here. Like - - Going to a cafe and seeing diverse group of people. Not everyone in there pitching or wearing company issued hoodie. Although at times it seems that everyone is wearing a Kaiser badge. - Our gorgeous, large space. - Stag's Lunchette has insane sandwiches. - Less homeless, feces, drug paraphernalia. - 15 min. to downtown SF from our office. Quicker for me to get downtown from here than it was living in Noe Valley years ago. Miss - - More friends and work-friends in SF. No sidewalk serendipity here. - Peninsula/Valley access. With traffic it can be even more of a nightmare to get to Palo Alto- San Mateo area.