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Good points, but I really don't agree with the analogy of Andy's predicament and a startup... You have no idea how deep the wall is. Then find out. Google "le

by edw519 14y ago

Good points, but I really don't agree with the analogy of Andy's predicament and a startup... You have no idea how deep the wall is. Then find out. Google "lean startup", "Eric Ries", "Steve Blank", or "Rob Walling". There is a strong active movement for avoiding exactly this problem. Anyone starting a business should embrace it. You have nothing but a rock hammer. Then get more tools. This includes technology, methodology, money, and, of course, people. "Lack of resources" is no longer an acceptable excuse for failing. You have no idea when you will be caught. Then find out. Talk to people. Embrace the lean startup approach mentioned above. But what you do have, is the journey. Enjoy the journey. Ahh, yes. agreed! You nailed that one.

npguy 14y ago
You got some solid points there, particularly the tools. If there is one place where the analogy fails, it would be the tools part.
rcavezza 14y ago
Hi Ed - Big fan of your posts. While I'm also a huge fan of the lean startup methodology, it's still an estimate. You're doing your best to make an educated guess, but you're never really sure if you were correct until years later.
jasonzemos 14y ago
These counterpoints sound swell for trivial activities like developing mobile apps that remind me to walk my dog. What about the guy developing fusion, or rockets to the moon? Or pursuing the minesweeper that is step-by-step scientific discovery. Should we forgo all activities that require serious investment and only take baby-steps to attain the goals we calculate to be the surest and easiest to reach?
- wtvanhest 14y ago
  Am I the only one who believes that the lean startup movement is a positive for early stage investors at the expense of true innovation and causes founders who would otherwise try tough challenges to try somewhat trivial business ideas? It seems that the framework is designed to reduce the need for computer engineers to use business thinking and to allow for a few examples of lucky groups to float to the top, raise capital while leaving the vast majority of those who try it with nothing to show for their work. With the strength of the movement, how many people out there are currently trying "lean startups" only to fail? What do we think the percentage of businesses that get started using this methodology would actually make a profit large enough to support/grow the business at some point in the future? It seems that the lean startup method serves a purpose in that it helps people try stuff, but it probably is not the right approach for any real challenge.
  - pnathan 14y ago
    No. Any significant breakthrough usually represents many man-years of effort spanning years in real-time. Loosely, it's a very applied set of phd research, driven towards a goal which can not be demonstrated true until it is proven true. I'm sure 'lean startup' is fine for a relatively trivial problem space, and there are many of those bringing much added benefit. I'm equally sure that significant lab equipment for bio/chem/materials firms can't be just 'iterated' through without heavy capital and a long-term plan. :-)
    - jasonzemos 14y ago
      I think we're all in agreement here. Early stage investors benefit from trivial successes by passing along the hot potato down the pyramid.
      - pnathan 14y ago
        Sorry! I should have quoted this line: > Am I the only one who believes that the lean startup movement is a positive for early stage investors at the expense of true innovation and causes founders who would otherwise try tough challenges to try somewhat trivial business ideas? "No, you're not the only one".

by edw519 14y ago

npguy 14y ago

You got some solid points there, particularly the tools. If there is one place where the analogy fails, it would be the tools part.

rcavezza 14y ago

Hi Ed - Big fan of your posts. While I'm also a huge fan of the lean startup methodology, it's still an estimate. You're doing your best to make an educated guess, but you're never really sure if you were correct until years later.

jasonzemos 14y ago

These counterpoints sound swell for trivial activities like developing mobile apps that remind me to walk my dog. What about the guy developing fusion, or rockets to the moon? Or pursuing the minesweeper that is step-by-step scientific discovery. Should we forgo all activities that require serious investment and only take baby-steps to attain the goals we calculate to be the surest and easiest to reach?

wtvanhest 14y ago
Am I the only one who believes that the lean startup movement is a positive for early stage investors at the expense of true innovation and causes founders who would otherwise try tough challenges to try somewhat trivial business ideas? It seems that the framework is designed to reduce the need for computer engineers to use business thinking and to allow for a few examples of lucky groups to float to the top, raise capital while leaving the vast majority of those who try it with nothing to show for their work. With the strength of the movement, how many people out there are currently trying "lean startups" only to fail? What do we think the percentage of businesses that get started using this methodology would actually make a profit large enough to support/grow the business at some point in the future? It seems that the lean startup method serves a purpose in that it helps people try stuff, but it probably is not the right approach for any real challenge.
- pnathan 14y ago
  No. Any significant breakthrough usually represents many man-years of effort spanning years in real-time. Loosely, it's a very applied set of phd research, driven towards a goal which can not be demonstrated true until it is proven true. I'm sure 'lean startup' is fine for a relatively trivial problem space, and there are many of those bringing much added benefit. I'm equally sure that significant lab equipment for bio/chem/materials firms can't be just 'iterated' through without heavy capital and a long-term plan. :-)
  - jasonzemos 14y ago
    I think we're all in agreement here. Early stage investors benefit from trivial successes by passing along the hot potato down the pyramid.
    - pnathan 14y ago
      Sorry! I should have quoted this line: > Am I the only one who believes that the lean startup movement is a positive for early stage investors at the expense of true innovation and causes founders who would otherwise try tough challenges to try somewhat trivial business ideas? "No, you're not the only one".