2 ms·

It depends on supply and demand, ultimately there is only so much demand for video games, social networks or whatever types of things people might want to work

by jiggy2011 14y ago

It depends on supply and demand, ultimately there is only so much demand for video games, social networks or whatever types of things people might want to work on even if they weren't being paid. Then the rest of the demand is for jobs that people basically only do for money (think TPS report generators or whatever). So ultimately some people end up being allocated to jobs that they would not choose for themselves unless they were being paid. So you only get a "choice" in so much as there is unsatisfied demand for the thing that you really want to do.

chill1 14y ago
Supply and demand? Really? There is no limit, no ceiling for things that truly inspire. If you make something with passion and skill - something that inspires others - you are probably going to do very well in life.
- jiggy2011 14y ago
  That sounds nice, but is a little empty. There are plenty of people who we now consider incredibly important figures (artists etc) who died broke.
  - Pkeod 14y ago
    And many who lived extremely fulfilling lives outside of accepting money for work. Everything is a choice. The people who refuse to not be smart about business refuse to take what they need - so they get what they get much like people who only work when a job is offered to them. Money is rarely made by accident. It is more likely to be made when you mix choice with opportunity.
    - jiggy2011 14y ago
      It's a choice to "choose to be smart", you can try to be smart but fail.
      - Pkeod 14y ago
        There's no such thing as a smart person. Only people who are more well informed. What you do is what you become. When I say smart I mean a willingness to do what it takes based on informed decisions. Creativity is only the body of material you have to draw from. Your visual or intellectual library of things you have already made a part of yourself through direct exposure. No invention or creation is made independently, it's all made with a clear path from one to another. Anyone can invent or create great things. Anyone can be great. All it takes is choice. Success favors perseverance. Failure is necessary to reach what works. Those who are unwilling to fail never succeed.
        jiggy2011 14y ago
        There certainly are people who are smarter than others, all research into human intelligence backs this up. Well informed is also a sticky concept, there is a lot of information out there. Much of it conflicting, it requires skill,time and a certain amount of luck to use the right information to make the right decisions. Sadly not everyone can be great, if everyone were great then nobody would be great. Though you could argue that we are already all "great" in comparison to the bacteria that we evolved from :)
        Pkeod 14y ago
        There are people who can play chess better than I can, who have higher "IQs", and yet I make more money than they do. Intelligence is not a magic number which increases in one way which allows you to do great things automatically with no effort. An average person (based on IQ points, which do NOT measure all the the ways for people to have potential for intelligence) can do far greater, meaningful things through willpower, and willpower is something we all have only still most people do not understand how to use it effectively. It's just knowledge, not innate ability. We are all very similar genetically and we all have very similar with our potential for greatness. Sure we all cannot be great in the same ways... like many of us here couldn't be NFL quarterbackers if we wanted to, but still ultimately with the things we want and the things we want to do the only thing holding us back are our beliefs. Any kind of creative person who is great is not born that way. It is not innate ability. Watch and listen to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnflBERf2zM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnflBERf2zM It is the same with anyone who has "intelligence" - like I said, there is no smart people, only people who are exposed to more and work harder to learn more. Yes, people can be brain damaged with real limits, but even they can be greater than lazy people who waste their potential. Even people with extremely limiting abilities can use what brain tissue they have, expand their mind, and blow away all we thought we knew as impossible. >Well informed is also a sticky concept, there is a lot of information out there. Much of it conflicting, it requires skill,time and a certain amount of luck to use the right information to make the right decisions. Yes, so, be exposed to as much as possible, and think. That's what I'm saying it takes. >Sadly not everyone can be great, if everyone were great then nobody would be great. Yeah, no. Wow. This is like saying not everyone can be happy, because we need some unhappy people for the rest of us to have some perspective. Or that we need ugly people to feel good about how good we look. Or that we need gold stars to gloat over how others don't have gold stars. No.
Pkeod 14y ago
You would think that, but the reality is there is a whole bunch of opportunity right now that is not being seized. Smith could change his life if he made the choice to. There is not an overflow of game developers, or people writing code worth being inspired about to the point where people who do it are not able to make money enough to live. People think what you are saying and assume it applies currently, and that they have no hope so they have to do the boring work they don't like. It does not apply right now, and it may never actually apply just because of what so many people are ingrained to believe. >think TPS report generators or whatever Value systems are not universal. You could take the most horrifying job you could think of and someone would take pleasure in it. > being allocated No one is ever forcibly allocated. Everyone has a choice to do what they want to do. If the ultimate horror reality of there being too many good games being made and not enough people to buy them all to the point where no one could make a living making games happened then people could still compromise and go down the list of things they genuinely enjoy and do those instead when they find something which can make them money. I don't know enough about Smith, but if he's not doing what he is doing as a temporary stopgap and he believes he is stuck forever doing code he hates then he is absolutely doing it wrong.
- jiggy2011 14y ago
  You can't have an economy where everybody gets to do their first (or probably 2nd or 3rd or 4th) choice of career unless you are people's desires happen to coincide with market demand. In fact I imagine that the majority of people employed in the workforce can think of a whole list of jobs that they would rather do. Otherwise we would have a huge oversupply of porn stars and rock stars but nobody to collect the trash.
  - Pkeod 14y ago
    >In fact Yes, absolutely, and so many people lack willpower to do greater things. That's not because they are not good enough people forever unable to summon the willpower to do it, but simply because they don't know the knowledge necessary. So many people believe so many absurd things which hold them back from what is possible. >You can't have an economy Sure you can. How long before the majority of all manual labor, all service jobs are done by computers and robots? Jobs which humans can do, but don't have to do. All of that uninspiring, boring drudge work which doesn't require any creativity or real problem solving. When those jobs are left we trend toward more of a gift economy where the value you have is what you do for others, what you inspire in them, what you delight them with. Some people already do things which do these things, others collect the trash. People are not forced to pick up your trash, and everyone could decide to refuse to take up that job, and yet people choose to still. Eventually it won't be a choice to put anyone's trash because it will all be automated.

chill1 14y ago

Supply and demand? Really? There is no limit, no ceiling for things that truly inspire. If you make something with passion and skill - something that inspires others - you are probably going to do very well in life.

jiggy2011 14y ago
That sounds nice, but is a little empty. There are plenty of people who we now consider incredibly important figures (artists etc) who died broke.
- Pkeod 14y ago
  And many who lived extremely fulfilling lives outside of accepting money for work. Everything is a choice. The people who refuse to not be smart about business refuse to take what they need - so they get what they get much like people who only work when a job is offered to them. Money is rarely made by accident. It is more likely to be made when you mix choice with opportunity.
  - jiggy2011 14y ago
    It's a choice to "choose to be smart", you can try to be smart but fail.
    - Pkeod 14y ago
      There's no such thing as a smart person. Only people who are more well informed. What you do is what you become. When I say smart I mean a willingness to do what it takes based on informed decisions. Creativity is only the body of material you have to draw from. Your visual or intellectual library of things you have already made a part of yourself through direct exposure. No invention or creation is made independently, it's all made with a clear path from one to another. Anyone can invent or create great things. Anyone can be great. All it takes is choice. Success favors perseverance. Failure is necessary to reach what works. Those who are unwilling to fail never succeed.
      - jiggy2011 14y ago
        There certainly are people who are smarter than others, all research into human intelligence backs this up. Well informed is also a sticky concept, there is a lot of information out there. Much of it conflicting, it requires skill,time and a certain amount of luck to use the right information to make the right decisions. Sadly not everyone can be great, if everyone were great then nobody would be great. Though you could argue that we are already all "great" in comparison to the bacteria that we evolved from :)
        Pkeod 14y ago
        There are people who can play chess better than I can, who have higher "IQs", and yet I make more money than they do. Intelligence is not a magic number which increases in one way which allows you to do great things automatically with no effort. An average person (based on IQ points, which do NOT measure all the the ways for people to have potential for intelligence) can do far greater, meaningful things through willpower, and willpower is something we all have only still most people do not understand how to use it effectively. It's just knowledge, not innate ability. We are all very similar genetically and we all have very similar with our potential for greatness. Sure we all cannot be great in the same ways... like many of us here couldn't be NFL quarterbackers if we wanted to, but still ultimately with the things we want and the things we want to do the only thing holding us back are our beliefs. Any kind of creative person who is great is not born that way. It is not innate ability. Watch and listen to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnflBERf2zM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnflBERf2zM It is the same with anyone who has "intelligence" - like I said, there is no smart people, only people who are exposed to more and work harder to learn more. Yes, people can be brain damaged with real limits, but even they can be greater than lazy people who waste their potential. Even people with extremely limiting abilities can use what brain tissue they have, expand their mind, and blow away all we thought we knew as impossible. >Well informed is also a sticky concept, there is a lot of information out there. Much of it conflicting, it requires skill,time and a certain amount of luck to use the right information to make the right decisions. Yes, so, be exposed to as much as possible, and think. That's what I'm saying it takes. >Sadly not everyone can be great, if everyone were great then nobody would be great. Yeah, no. Wow. This is like saying not everyone can be happy, because we need some unhappy people for the rest of us to have some perspective. Or that we need ugly people to feel good about how good we look. Or that we need gold stars to gloat over how others don't have gold stars. No.

Pkeod 14y ago

You would think that, but the reality is there is a whole bunch of opportunity right now that is not being seized. Smith could change his life if he made the choice to. There is not an overflow of game developers, or people writing code worth being inspired about to the point where people who do it are not able to make money enough to live. People think what you are saying and assume it applies currently, and that they have no hope so they have to do the boring work they don't like. It does not apply right now, and it may never actually apply just because of what so many people are ingrained to believe. >think TPS report generators or whatever Value systems are not universal. You could take the most horrifying job you could think of and someone would take pleasure in it. > being allocated No one is ever forcibly allocated. Everyone has a choice to do what they want to do. If the ultimate horror reality of there being too many good games being made and not enough people to buy them all to the point where no one could make a living making games happened then people could still compromise and go down the list of things they genuinely enjoy and do those instead when they find something which can make them money. I don't know enough about Smith, but if he's not doing what he is doing as a temporary stopgap and he believes he is stuck forever doing code he hates then he is absolutely doing it wrong.

jiggy2011 14y ago
You can't have an economy where everybody gets to do their first (or probably 2nd or 3rd or 4th) choice of career unless you are people's desires happen to coincide with market demand. In fact I imagine that the majority of people employed in the workforce can think of a whole list of jobs that they would rather do. Otherwise we would have a huge oversupply of porn stars and rock stars but nobody to collect the trash.
- Pkeod 14y ago
  >In fact Yes, absolutely, and so many people lack willpower to do greater things. That's not because they are not good enough people forever unable to summon the willpower to do it, but simply because they don't know the knowledge necessary. So many people believe so many absurd things which hold them back from what is possible. >You can't have an economy Sure you can. How long before the majority of all manual labor, all service jobs are done by computers and robots? Jobs which humans can do, but don't have to do. All of that uninspiring, boring drudge work which doesn't require any creativity or real problem solving. When those jobs are left we trend toward more of a gift economy where the value you have is what you do for others, what you inspire in them, what you delight them with. Some people already do things which do these things, others collect the trash. People are not forced to pick up your trash, and everyone could decide to refuse to take up that job, and yet people choose to still. Eventually it won't be a choice to put anyone's trash because it will all be automated.