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I’m not a programmer but have witnessed – and mediated - a lot of these arguments. Some are very esoteric while others are pretty practical. But some programme

I’m not a programmer but have witnessed – and mediated - a lot of these arguments. Some are very esoteric while others are pretty practical. But some programmers forget that when you’re trying to implement a “large” project (relatively large user base and relatively long expected life), the programming language is just a tool. You can tinker forever with a technologically superior language – and enjoy the intellectual challenge – and never implement your project. Or you can settle for a less sophisticated language and implement your project in a reasonable amount of time, though not as elegantly as you might like.

jiggy2011 14y ago
Or you could implement the project in the superior language in a reasonable amount of time.
- RougeFemme 14y ago
  Of course, this the preferred option. But when the arguments ensue, it's usually because the developers are saying I can't give you the project in the superior language in a reasonable amount of time. So if a choice must be made between superior language and reasonable amount of time, project managers usually choose reasonable amount of time.
  - jiggy2011 14y ago
    If a superior language cannot deliver the project as quickly and to the same level of quality as in an inferior language then you need to examine how the words inferior and superior relate to the relationship between the languages.
  - lelele 14y ago
    > So if a choice must be made between superior language and reasonable amount of time, project managers usually choose reasonable amount of time. Sure. Of course project managers usually choose deadlines over people, then when talented people burn out and leave, they wonder why talents are so difficult to keep. We know what the safe choice is: hire average programmers who see programming languages as interchangeable, and are themselves interchangeable. No worries about competitors, for they are doing the same. Nothing wrong with that, but please let's not pretend things are any different.
yen223 14y ago
"Or you can settle for a less sophisticated language and implement your project in a reasonable amount of time, though not as elegantly as you might like." And be stuck maintaining horribly inelegant 10-year-old systems written in a "stable" language that was obsolete 5 years ago. A system where pushing a change in one module breaks 3 others. But hey, "worse is better" right?
lelele 14y ago
> the programming language is just a tool Not really. > I’m not a programmer That says it all. Talented programmers prefer to work with tools they feel productive with. While it is true that inexperienced programmers lack pragmatism when it comes to choosing their tools, it is likewise true that non-programmers who think about themselves as pragmatic are often just clueless. Hopefully you don't manage people, because you don't understand them.

jiggy2011 14y ago

Or you could implement the project in the superior language in a reasonable amount of time.

RougeFemme 14y ago
Of course, this the preferred option. But when the arguments ensue, it's usually because the developers are saying I can't give you the project in the superior language in a reasonable amount of time. So if a choice must be made between superior language and reasonable amount of time, project managers usually choose reasonable amount of time.
- jiggy2011 14y ago
  If a superior language cannot deliver the project as quickly and to the same level of quality as in an inferior language then you need to examine how the words inferior and superior relate to the relationship between the languages.
- lelele 14y ago
  > So if a choice must be made between superior language and reasonable amount of time, project managers usually choose reasonable amount of time. Sure. Of course project managers usually choose deadlines over people, then when talented people burn out and leave, they wonder why talents are so difficult to keep. We know what the safe choice is: hire average programmers who see programming languages as interchangeable, and are themselves interchangeable. No worries about competitors, for they are doing the same. Nothing wrong with that, but please let's not pretend things are any different.

yen223 14y ago

"Or you can settle for a less sophisticated language and implement your project in a reasonable amount of time, though not as elegantly as you might like." And be stuck maintaining horribly inelegant 10-year-old systems written in a "stable" language that was obsolete 5 years ago. A system where pushing a change in one module breaks 3 others. But hey, "worse is better" right?

lelele 14y ago

> the programming language is just a tool Not really. > I’m not a programmer That says it all. Talented programmers prefer to work with tools they feel productive with. While it is true that inexperienced programmers lack pragmatism when it comes to choosing their tools, it is likewise true that non-programmers who think about themselves as pragmatic are often just clueless. Hopefully you don't manage people, because you don't understand them.