4 ms·

Come on now. The odds of being hit by a meteor (actually meteorite) are effectively nil [0]. Are you claiming that the 88 people shot in mass shooting last year

by necubi 14y ago

Come on now. The odds of being hit by a meteor (actually meteorite) are effectively nil [0]. Are you claiming that the 88 people shot in mass shooting last year [1] were all suicidal or criminals? And really, while mass shootings get all the news attention, they are only a tiny part of the problem. The real tragedy is the way easy access to handguns has transformed communities like the South Side of Chicago, where kids are gunned down every week. This American Life recently did a remarkable report [3] on the conditions in and around one Chicago high school where in the past year 29 current and former students were shot. That reporting could have just as easily been done in Oakland, or Detroit. This is not about ideology. People are dying every day, innocent people going about their lives, and our current strategy of doing nothing, of burying our heads in the sand, is accomplishing...nothing. [0] http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/10/12/insurance-from-the-skies/#.UTPRKl5QCTM http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/10/12/in... [1] http://www.thenation.com/blog/171774/fifteen-us-mass-shootings-happened-2012-84-dead http://www.thenation.com/blog/171774/fifteen-us-mass-shootin... [3] http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/487/harper-high-school-part-one http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/487/h...

DamnYuppie 14y ago
So what do you want to do about the innocent people dying from drunk drivers?
- gradstudent 14y ago
  Your comparison is a red herring. Cars are useful and beneficial devices that enhance our lives. Guns are weapons intended to kill. They have zero utility to people who are not farmers or members of the police or military. That leaves recreational hunting as the sole activity for which one could justifiably claim gun ownership as a necessity. You don't need a hand cannon or a semi-automatic assault rifle to hunt deer. Seriously, fuck guns.
  - CamperBob2 14y ago
    They have zero utility to people who are not farmers or members of the police or military. These would be the same organizations (well, excluding farmers, I suppose) who killed about a hundred million of their own countrymen in the twentieth century alone? Yeah, I can see where allowing the government to hold a monopoly on the use of force is a really bright idea. Good thinking there, Tex.
    - monochromatic 14y ago
      Now now. Anyone named Tex would probably not hold such wrong-headed beliefs about guns :)
    - gradstudent 14y ago
      > These would be the same organizations (well, excluding farmers, I suppose) who killed about a hundred million of their own countrymen in the twentieth century alone? Yeah, I can see where allowing the government to hold a monopoly on the use of force is a really bright idea. The right to bear arms is an anachronism that needs to be scrapped. Two points: 1. Civilian small arms are useless against an organised modern military. If your government wanted to tyrannise you, they would and all the AR15s in the world wouldn't save you. 2. If you do not trust your government, elect a new one. If that doesn't work, move.
      - CamperBob2 14y ago
        The right to bear arms is an anachronism that needs to be scrapped Fine, that's a valid opinion. There's a process for that: work for the repeal of the Second Amendment. Otherwise, please stop the passive-aggressive end runs around the Constitution. Your favorite part of the Bill of Rights may be next. 1. Civilian small arms are useless against an organised modern military. If your government wanted to tyrannise you, they would and all the AR15s in the world wouldn't save you. (Shrug) If you say so. History, including very modern history, suggests otherwise. 2. If you do not trust your government, elect a new one. If that doesn't work, move. No. You move.
  - 14y ago
CamperBob2 14y ago
The real tragedy is the way easy access to handguns has transformed communities like the South Side of Chicago, where kids are gunned down every week. Do you have any idea how many laws are already being broken when that happens? How are more laws going to help? More to the point, how is registering my guns (in preparation for future confiscation, it's safe to say, because that's what's happened elsewhere) going to protect those kids?
- necubi 14y ago
  The problem is, as I said, easy access to handguns. While Chicago has stringent gun laws, one need only step over into Indiana where gun shows or private "collectors" can sell unlimited numbers of guns to just about anybody. Effectively, there is no gun control in this country right now. Every step of this transaction is legal, until the guns are brought onto the street.
  - CamperBob2 14y ago
    But oddly enough, I don't hear of the same thing happening in Indiana, at least not to the extent I hear about violence in Chicago. Must not be the guns. Must be something else.
monochromatic 14y ago
easy access to handguns has transformed communities like the South Side of Chicago There is just no evidence that easy access to handguns has done any such thing. There's easy access to handguns pretty much everywhere in the country. Why is it to blame in south Chicago, when it hasn't had the same effect elsewhere? If anything, it's harder to get a handgun in Chicago.

by necubi 14y ago

DamnYuppie 14y ago

So what do you want to do about the innocent people dying from drunk drivers?

gradstudent 14y ago
Your comparison is a red herring. Cars are useful and beneficial devices that enhance our lives. Guns are weapons intended to kill. They have zero utility to people who are not farmers or members of the police or military. That leaves recreational hunting as the sole activity for which one could justifiably claim gun ownership as a necessity. You don't need a hand cannon or a semi-automatic assault rifle to hunt deer. Seriously, fuck guns.
- CamperBob2 14y ago
  They have zero utility to people who are not farmers or members of the police or military. These would be the same organizations (well, excluding farmers, I suppose) who killed about a hundred million of their own countrymen in the twentieth century alone? Yeah, I can see where allowing the government to hold a monopoly on the use of force is a really bright idea. Good thinking there, Tex.
  - monochromatic 14y ago
    Now now. Anyone named Tex would probably not hold such wrong-headed beliefs about guns :)
  - gradstudent 14y ago
    > These would be the same organizations (well, excluding farmers, I suppose) who killed about a hundred million of their own countrymen in the twentieth century alone? Yeah, I can see where allowing the government to hold a monopoly on the use of force is a really bright idea. The right to bear arms is an anachronism that needs to be scrapped. Two points: 1. Civilian small arms are useless against an organised modern military. If your government wanted to tyrannise you, they would and all the AR15s in the world wouldn't save you. 2. If you do not trust your government, elect a new one. If that doesn't work, move.
    - CamperBob2 14y ago
      The right to bear arms is an anachronism that needs to be scrapped Fine, that's a valid opinion. There's a process for that: work for the repeal of the Second Amendment. Otherwise, please stop the passive-aggressive end runs around the Constitution. Your favorite part of the Bill of Rights may be next. 1. Civilian small arms are useless against an organised modern military. If your government wanted to tyrannise you, they would and all the AR15s in the world wouldn't save you. (Shrug) If you say so. History, including very modern history, suggests otherwise. 2. If you do not trust your government, elect a new one. If that doesn't work, move. No. You move.
- 14y ago

CamperBob2 14y ago

The real tragedy is the way easy access to handguns has transformed communities like the South Side of Chicago, where kids are gunned down every week. Do you have any idea how many laws are already being broken when that happens? How are more laws going to help? More to the point, how is registering my guns (in preparation for future confiscation, it's safe to say, because that's what's happened elsewhere) going to protect those kids?

necubi 14y ago
The problem is, as I said, easy access to handguns. While Chicago has stringent gun laws, one need only step over into Indiana where gun shows or private "collectors" can sell unlimited numbers of guns to just about anybody. Effectively, there is no gun control in this country right now. Every step of this transaction is legal, until the guns are brought onto the street.
- CamperBob2 14y ago
  But oddly enough, I don't hear of the same thing happening in Indiana, at least not to the extent I hear about violence in Chicago. Must not be the guns. Must be something else.

monochromatic 14y ago

easy access to handguns has transformed communities like the South Side of Chicago There is just no evidence that easy access to handguns has done any such thing. There's easy access to handguns pretty much everywhere in the country. Why is it to blame in south Chicago, when it hasn't had the same effect elsewhere? If anything, it's harder to get a handgun in Chicago.