2 ms·

Was it a question of conscience though? As far as I could tell from the statement that was linked, he came to no conclusion more specific than that "war sucks"

by mpyne 14y ago

Was it a question of conscience though? As far as I could tell from the statement that was linked, he came to no conclusion more specific than that "war sucks" when leaking the SIGACTs. Good job, but we've known that since before the Code of Hammurabi. Did he really think that Americans were convinced that no civilian casualties ever occurred, or that a population of hundreds of thousands (that had been a bunch of high schoolers just a few years prior) were 100% "good guys" without exception? Many of those soldiers aren't even old enough to drink. That wasn't an oversight; the public has known, and always have. That is the big difference from the Pentagon Papers. In that situation it was uncovered that the President had been trying to force the country to war. Here we already know why we're at war (9/11 and Dubya for Afghanistan and Iraq resp.). Manning had nothing to add about why the U.S. was at war. A 'smoking gun' revealing gov't interference beyond what is already known for Iraq would have been useful, at least. So, if that [war being bad] was his reason for wanting to "start a public debate" it was pointless, completely dead on arrival. And in the event, look what happened. A bunch of people have died in Africa and the Middle East, but the military plans of the U.S. itself were never seriously questioned, let alone altered. The U.S. still goes after Islamists, don't they? > Manning can speak about why he did and you can speak about why you didn't. Oh you're so cute, with your Cloak of Superior Morality. Answer this for me: You're obviously skilled with computing, why aren't you extracting the information you need, if it's a moral imperative? For what it's worth I'm pretty sure that everything I'm holding onto is actually better in the grand scheme of things but by all means, point out my "guilty conscience" to me.

jacquesm 14y ago
> You're obviously skilled with computing, why aren't you extracting the information you need, if it's a moral imperative? I'm doing what I can, no need to worry. And I refused to go into the army on penalty of (significant) jailtime, got off very lucky but I would have happily gone to jail to avoid becoming someone else's tool. No cloak of super morality here, just one guy deciding for himself.
retrogradeorbit 14y ago
Actually, you are incorrect about knowing why we (the western allies) are at war. 9/11 was carried out by Saudi's and had absolutely nothing to do with Afghanistan, no matter what the spin doctors say. And as for Iraq, what kind of reason is "Dubya"? For me it's clear that the videos show a breech of International Law and possibly a war crime. Does the United States abide by International Law? Of course not. It doesn't even abide by the Geneva Convention. Nor even by its own constitution. When people look and see a 'republic' or a 'democracy'... this is illusion. It's spin. It's a fairy tale. And as the ongoing Hedges v. Obama is showing, in all likely hood the US government is already torturing disappeared US citizens in black sites somewhere unknown. As soon as anyone tries to shine light on these crimes (and they are crimes) they invoke powers that allow them to bury them and bring the full force of their system down on them to send a message to others. None of this is going to work. The more they try and surpress it, the more it will flare up. Bradley Manning is just one of the visible victims. There are and will be many more victims. Not least the many millions of innocents killed in foreign lands. The western nations are an empire in decline. The middle class is decimated. The economy is toast. The numbers are all fabricated. It's all down hill from here. And as the BRICS rise, do you think they are going to forgive us our trespasses? Of course not. They are going to hold us down and fuck us for a long, long time. And frankly, we all deserve it.

by mpyne 14y ago

jacquesm 14y ago

> You're obviously skilled with computing, why aren't you extracting the information you need, if it's a moral imperative? I'm doing what I can, no need to worry. And I refused to go into the army on penalty of (significant) jailtime, got off very lucky but I would have happily gone to jail to avoid becoming someone else's tool. No cloak of super morality here, just one guy deciding for himself.

retrogradeorbit 14y ago

Actually, you are incorrect about knowing why we (the western allies) are at war. 9/11 was carried out by Saudi's and had absolutely nothing to do with Afghanistan, no matter what the spin doctors say. And as for Iraq, what kind of reason is "Dubya"? For me it's clear that the videos show a breech of International Law and possibly a war crime. Does the United States abide by International Law? Of course not. It doesn't even abide by the Geneva Convention. Nor even by its own constitution. When people look and see a 'republic' or a 'democracy'... this is illusion. It's spin. It's a fairy tale. And as the ongoing Hedges v. Obama is showing, in all likely hood the US government is already torturing disappeared US citizens in black sites somewhere unknown. As soon as anyone tries to shine light on these crimes (and they are crimes) they invoke powers that allow them to bury them and bring the full force of their system down on them to send a message to others. None of this is going to work. The more they try and surpress it, the more it will flare up. Bradley Manning is just one of the visible victims. There are and will be many more victims. Not least the many millions of innocents killed in foreign lands. The western nations are an empire in decline. The middle class is decimated. The economy is toast. The numbers are all fabricated. It's all down hill from here. And as the BRICS rise, do you think they are going to forgive us our trespasses? Of course not. They are going to hold us down and fuck us for a long, long time. And frankly, we all deserve it.