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> CloudFlare currently runs 23 data centers worldwide. Shouldn't that always say - CloudFlare currently runs in 23 data centers worldwide? Or is that just how

> CloudFlare currently runs 23 data centers worldwide. Shouldn't that always say - CloudFlare currently runs in 23 data centers worldwide? Or is that just how one would phrase that if you rent multiple racks or a cage in a datacenter? ...because I've seen that a bunch of times before from just about everyone. Just curious.

DASD 14y ago
You are correct. However, it is not as bad as the egregious use of the word "unlimited" by hosting providers.
ChuckMcM 14y ago
A bit nit picky yes? Even Google mentions places as "data centers" which really are co-location facilities hosting a bit of gear. It has come to be a way to identify unique numbers of building rather than ownership in most papers or articles that I've read. To be clear I share your desire for precise speech, perhaps the could have said 'Cloudflare currently uses 23 data centers worldwide' but given that the person writing this is doing it on a Sunday, probably after a long night and having missed all the things they normally would have been doing on Sunday, I'm willing to cut them some slack.
tlrobinson 14y ago
The distinction is a bit arbitrary. As a customer you should care that their service is geographically distributed, not whether they own the buildings where the servers are kept.
- larrys 14y ago
  "As a customer you should care that their service is geographically distributed" Don't agree. If you own the data center you have more control over it. We had a case where the UPS systems in a data center had bad batteries and equipment went down because the batteries failed to kick in. Since we don't own the data center we have no realistic way to make inspections and make sure the right thing happens or that the batteries (or the generators) are cycled and maintained. We just have to trust. [1] Now this may or may not matter with the way they have their redundancy setup. But owning a data center does give you more control over more things. "not whether they own the buildings where the servers are kept." Owning the data center and owning the buildings are two different things. Owning the building is owning real estate. Owning the data center is owning the security setup, backup systems etc. Two different things. [1] So as not to contradict myself with other things I have said I should not say "trust" because you can always put some things in place to verify the right thing is happening (inspections, logs etc.) if you want. But if you own the place it's easier. If I own my home I can decide when to replace the HVAC so it doesn't fail in the middle of the summer. If I rent that's up to the landlord.
  - acdha 14y ago
    The downside is that this obligates you to do a wider variety of tasks. I'd be surprised if CloudFlare has enough profit margin to afford many redundant electrical engineers, physical network & power techs, etc. in 23 widely dispersed locations. It's obvious that the extra expense wouldn't have helped in this case but it certainly would consume a big chunk of money and management time. Part of being a business is that you have to make tradeoffs in the real world rather than game-theoretical perfect moves. In many cases this means carefully writing contracts because you can't afford the certain expense and distraction of doing it in-house in the hope that the results might be slightly better.
  - oijaf888 14y ago
    Or you could just engineer your systems to take that into account and realize that you can't trust the data center's power so you have to be able to quickly and easily shift all the load to another one.
- 23david 14y ago
  Gotta disagree. Owning a datacenter doesn't mean that they own the building. The difference between renting space in a datacenter versus running an entire datacenter is very big, and has ramifications for their uptime, security of their data and disaster recovery. Not sure why they aren't clearer about this.
  - meh02 14y ago
    Because they want you to think they're doing something more than running a bunch of leased servers from dedicated server providers.

DASD 14y ago

You are correct. However, it is not as bad as the egregious use of the word "unlimited" by hosting providers.

ChuckMcM 14y ago

A bit nit picky yes? Even Google mentions places as "data centers" which really are co-location facilities hosting a bit of gear. It has come to be a way to identify unique numbers of building rather than ownership in most papers or articles that I've read. To be clear I share your desire for precise speech, perhaps the could have said 'Cloudflare currently uses 23 data centers worldwide' but given that the person writing this is doing it on a Sunday, probably after a long night and having missed all the things they normally would have been doing on Sunday, I'm willing to cut them some slack.

tlrobinson 14y ago

The distinction is a bit arbitrary. As a customer you should care that their service is geographically distributed, not whether they own the buildings where the servers are kept.

larrys 14y ago
"As a customer you should care that their service is geographically distributed" Don't agree. If you own the data center you have more control over it. We had a case where the UPS systems in a data center had bad batteries and equipment went down because the batteries failed to kick in. Since we don't own the data center we have no realistic way to make inspections and make sure the right thing happens or that the batteries (or the generators) are cycled and maintained. We just have to trust. [1] Now this may or may not matter with the way they have their redundancy setup. But owning a data center does give you more control over more things. "not whether they own the buildings where the servers are kept." Owning the data center and owning the buildings are two different things. Owning the building is owning real estate. Owning the data center is owning the security setup, backup systems etc. Two different things. [1] So as not to contradict myself with other things I have said I should not say "trust" because you can always put some things in place to verify the right thing is happening (inspections, logs etc.) if you want. But if you own the place it's easier. If I own my home I can decide when to replace the HVAC so it doesn't fail in the middle of the summer. If I rent that's up to the landlord.
- acdha 14y ago
  The downside is that this obligates you to do a wider variety of tasks. I'd be surprised if CloudFlare has enough profit margin to afford many redundant electrical engineers, physical network & power techs, etc. in 23 widely dispersed locations. It's obvious that the extra expense wouldn't have helped in this case but it certainly would consume a big chunk of money and management time. Part of being a business is that you have to make tradeoffs in the real world rather than game-theoretical perfect moves. In many cases this means carefully writing contracts because you can't afford the certain expense and distraction of doing it in-house in the hope that the results might be slightly better.
- oijaf888 14y ago
  Or you could just engineer your systems to take that into account and realize that you can't trust the data center's power so you have to be able to quickly and easily shift all the load to another one.
23david 14y ago
Gotta disagree. Owning a datacenter doesn't mean that they own the building. The difference between renting space in a datacenter versus running an entire datacenter is very big, and has ramifications for their uptime, security of their data and disaster recovery. Not sure why they aren't clearer about this.
- meh02 14y ago
  Because they want you to think they're doing something more than running a bunch of leased servers from dedicated server providers.