4 ms·

Man, a computer in a cable seems like such a waste and complex design. What's the point of doing so ? I don't get it.

by cake 14y ago

HNLogInShit 14y ago
It's more Apple detachment from the real world. There's no excuse for this shit. The point of updating the dock connector was presumably to MODERNIZE it, with a real DisplayPort or (better) Thunderbolt connector. Come to find out that it's a piece of shit that can't even deliver clean video. And all of that pales in comparison to the blunder of not having audio line out in the port anymore. Now that every audio manufacturer has RE-added auxiliary inputs to car stereos, clock radios, and boom boxes... Apple REMOVES the output that feeds them. And this is on devices that are media players first, phones second. PATHETIC.
fredsted 14y ago
Sorry, but did you read the comment?
- XorNot 14y ago
  It still doesn't make any sense. "Here's a world standard which is being built into literally every display on the planet, and is signal compatible with many others" (i.e. HDMI/Displayport/DVI). And for some reason they're worried about some new standard being incompatible and not being able to upconvert? The exact same logic would apply if the devices had native display connectors, and then eventually needed some new connector for it. If you can't get a raw framebuffer or HDMI over your current link, you're never going to get a new faster/bigger protocol over it either.
  - glasshead969 14y ago
    This isn't just about video, the design helps to keep pin smaller and removes the need to having dedicated combination of pins to support a certain standard which may not be used anymore. For example, old 30 pin connected had support for FireWire which is no longer user anymore but connecter still needed to have those pins. I think they know the issue of video quality and are working to fix that. The beauty of this design is they can improve the hardware/software to push data efficiently because it just needs to output data stream it's upto the cable to handle it. As Moore's law kicks in, cables would need smaller chips. They no longer have to keep changing pin configuration to add support to newer connectors. The Cables will handle that in the software.
    - XorNot 14y ago
      Except all it does is create a new problem for them, without solving an old one. If you're putting a SOC in the cable then it has to be powerful enough to talk to the new standard. So you need a custom cable and connector no matter what. If you need a custom cable no matter what, then why not support a common standard - which is a standard and thus common to many devices - and then adapt it as necessary? Instead you have this situation: you've got a proprietary standard which can't handle a common standard well in the first place (evidenced by the fact they made a compromise to make it work). It'd make sense if there was a lack of pins or something, but it doesn't - between USB and HDMI/DP there's every type of signalling you would need to support newer standards within the realms of the existing hardware. It's Apple ecosystem lock in and that's it, but in this case its a worse outcome. They're not going to be reprogramming iOS devices for faster bitrates - that means an IC change in the device. It also means an IC change in the cable. And at the end of the day still means...less capability then using standards would have.
      - glasshead969 14y ago
        >>They're not going to be reprogramming iOS devices for faster bitrates - that means an IC change in the device. It also means an IC change in the cable. And at the end of the day still means...less capability then using standards would have. I am not sure the assumption that it would need a new chip is true. It may be a firmware issue that can be fixed in a software update. >> It'd make sense if there was a lack of pins or something, but it doesn't - between USB and HDMI/DP there's every type of signalling you would need to support newer standards within the realms of the existing hardware. Within in realm of existing hardware is the key point. 30 pin connector was used for 10 years. In those 10 years there has been huge change in Standards used and adopted. I would assume Apple has similar plans for Lightning. Also USB and HDMI is not a perfect standard as you seem to imply. The docking port on iDevices is used for many other things including things which haven't been invented yet. Standards like Micro USB 2 are non starters for Apple. With only 5 pins: +5V, Ground, 2 digital data pins, and a sense pin,most of the dock connector functions wouldn’t work – only charging and syncing would. Micro USB 3 is capable but Larger than Lightening. Also implementing Micro USB 3 would require a Chip on the host and also handle USB protocol on processor using precious PCB space. Also implementing HDMI on Micro USB needs a special convertor chip. Also many devices break USB spec for allowed power to charge their devices. iPad with retina display, despite going over limits takes forever to charge. On lightening, device can multiplex all 8 pins to charge the device. I agree with your point of controlling the peripheral market. This isn't as much of a compromise as what would needed to be done in case of Micro USB. MHL does same thing for Micro USB where a separate controller chip on the cable repurpose signals to HDMI while USB is off.

Man, a computer in a cable seems like such a waste and complex design. What's the point of doing so ? I don't get it.

by cake 14y ago

Man, a computer in a cable seems like such a waste and complex design. What's the point of doing so ? I don't get it.

It's more Apple detachment from the real world. There's no excuse for this shit. The point of updating the dock connector was presumably to MODERNIZE it, with a real DisplayPort or (better) Thunderbolt connector. Come to find out that it's a piece of shit that can't even deliver clean video. And all of that pales in comparison to the blunder of not having audio line out in the port anymore. Now that every audio manufacturer has RE-added auxiliary inputs to car stereos, clock radios, and boom boxes... Apple REMOVES the output that feeds them. And this is on devices that are media players first, phones second. PATHETIC.

fredsted 14y ago

Sorry, but did you read the comment?

XorNot 14y ago
It still doesn't make any sense. "Here's a world standard which is being built into literally every display on the planet, and is signal compatible with many others" (i.e. HDMI/Displayport/DVI). And for some reason they're worried about some new standard being incompatible and not being able to upconvert? The exact same logic would apply if the devices had native display connectors, and then eventually needed some new connector for it. If you can't get a raw framebuffer or HDMI over your current link, you're never going to get a new faster/bigger protocol over it either.
- glasshead969 14y ago
  This isn't just about video, the design helps to keep pin smaller and removes the need to having dedicated combination of pins to support a certain standard which may not be used anymore. For example, old 30 pin connected had support for FireWire which is no longer user anymore but connecter still needed to have those pins. I think they know the issue of video quality and are working to fix that. The beauty of this design is they can improve the hardware/software to push data efficiently because it just needs to output data stream it's upto the cable to handle it. As Moore's law kicks in, cables would need smaller chips. They no longer have to keep changing pin configuration to add support to newer connectors. The Cables will handle that in the software.
  - XorNot 14y ago
    Except all it does is create a new problem for them, without solving an old one. If you're putting a SOC in the cable then it has to be powerful enough to talk to the new standard. So you need a custom cable and connector no matter what. If you need a custom cable no matter what, then why not support a common standard - which is a standard and thus common to many devices - and then adapt it as necessary? Instead you have this situation: you've got a proprietary standard which can't handle a common standard well in the first place (evidenced by the fact they made a compromise to make it work). It'd make sense if there was a lack of pins or something, but it doesn't - between USB and HDMI/DP there's every type of signalling you would need to support newer standards within the realms of the existing hardware. It's Apple ecosystem lock in and that's it, but in this case its a worse outcome. They're not going to be reprogramming iOS devices for faster bitrates - that means an IC change in the device. It also means an IC change in the cable. And at the end of the day still means...less capability then using standards would have.
    - glasshead969 14y ago
      >>They're not going to be reprogramming iOS devices for faster bitrates - that means an IC change in the device. It also means an IC change in the cable. And at the end of the day still means...less capability then using standards would have. I am not sure the assumption that it would need a new chip is true. It may be a firmware issue that can be fixed in a software update. >> It'd make sense if there was a lack of pins or something, but it doesn't - between USB and HDMI/DP there's every type of signalling you would need to support newer standards within the realms of the existing hardware. Within in realm of existing hardware is the key point. 30 pin connector was used for 10 years. In those 10 years there has been huge change in Standards used and adopted. I would assume Apple has similar plans for Lightning. Also USB and HDMI is not a perfect standard as you seem to imply. The docking port on iDevices is used for many other things including things which haven't been invented yet. Standards like Micro USB 2 are non starters for Apple. With only 5 pins: +5V, Ground, 2 digital data pins, and a sense pin,most of the dock connector functions wouldn’t work – only charging and syncing would. Micro USB 3 is capable but Larger than Lightening. Also implementing Micro USB 3 would require a Chip on the host and also handle USB protocol on processor using precious PCB space. Also implementing HDMI on Micro USB needs a special convertor chip. Also many devices break USB spec for allowed power to charge their devices. iPad with retina display, despite going over limits takes forever to charge. On lightening, device can multiplex all 8 pins to charge the device. I agree with your point of controlling the peripheral market. This isn't as much of a compromise as what would needed to be done in case of Micro USB. MHL does same thing for Micro USB where a separate controller chip on the cable repurpose signals to HDMI while USB is off.