4 ms·

In contrast, I am energized by going into the office and working side by side with my peers to solve hard problems. I dislike programming by myself, it is dull

by com2kid 14y ago

In contrast, I am energized by going into the office and working side by side with my peers to solve hard problems. I dislike programming by myself, it is dull, boring, and much more error prone than when I have someone to bounce ideas off of. (Rubber Ducking only goes so far!) Really every time this topic is brought up the overall consensus seems to be "it varies for different people." Some people seem to really benefit from working at home, some benefit from working in an office. The real thing that gets to me is those who, for whatever reason, do not seem to understand that different people have different needs!

enjo 14y ago
Yep! There are times I want to be in the office. There are times I want to be at a coffee shop. There are times I want to be at home. As an executive, I feel like it's my job to provide as much flexibility to my team as I possibly can. Inspiration can strike anywhere, in any environment. I want to capture that for my business. I find that people really appreciate it as well. Really it comes down to meeting management. Limit the requirement for face-time and structure the company in a way that you can minimize how often people have to collaborate. I find this makes the voluntary (and spontaneous) interactions even more valuable. The Yahoo decision really bothers me in a really visceral way. My team is made up of highly skilled professionals who deserve to be treated like adults. Forcing them into the office is the opposite of that (at least to me).
- res0nat0r 14y ago
  This policy hasn't been set in stone as a permanent measure. I'm sure it is being put in place for now to help the company get its act together to help bring it back from the sub par arena it has been swimming in for so long. Once that hopefully happens then the policy could be lifted.
  - outside1234 14y ago
    you mean like at Google. oh wait.
    - res0nat0r 14y ago
      Google and Amazon both don't allow permanent work from home positions.
      - outside1234 14y ago
        exactly.
- devcpp 14y ago
  Your sound like an executive too, putting emphasis on well-researched words, and mentioning things like capturing inspiration. As far as I've seen, there is little inspiration involved in most programming environments, just a lot of thinking.
  - enjo 14y ago
    I'm going to assume this was meant to be insulting. A lot of that is going around on HN these days. It's really too bad. I'll just leave it at this. Isn't inspiration often the end-result of careful thought? I don't see what about an office makes it the right place for the thinking you see in programming environments. I've solved more hard problems in the shower than I have at my desk.
    - dwj 14y ago
      enjo is absolutely right. I regularly require inspiration in order to solve difficult problems. This inspiration generally never happens when sitting in front of a computer screen - most of my ideas come when I am walking, swimming, cycling, etc. Certainly there are many dull development jobs that require no inspiration or even much thinking - I worked in many of them before I got bored to death and started my own business. If you are in one of those dead-end jobs, you're not the kind of person that enjo is talking about.
    - devcpp 14y ago
      Sorry if you found that insulting. I guess I got used to this aspetic cold language you see on HN to make emotion invisible. That's one of the things I miss from Reddit. I know there are many people like you that somehow intuitively capture these abstract concepts, and I respect that. I just find it amusing that you can notice these things even when the person is out of work. That's when you differentiate the manipulative managers from the true ones. My point wasn't particularly focusing in offices. Being pragmatic and rather emotion-less, I find programming requires more logic and method than feelings.
gnosis 14y ago
"In contrast, I am energized by going into the office and working side by side with my peers to solve hard problems." Let me know if you still feel that way in 20 years.
- soneca 14y ago
  Well, I hope he will! Probably with different peers and surely with different problems. But that would be my goal. Sure, the "into the office" part can change. But I also hope he can change in a range of 20 years, without having the need to be inflexible to what he claim as a preference in the past. Actually, this statement sounded so out of purpose, that I am having a second thought that I maybe have lost something here.
- com2kid 14y ago
  It's been 7 years so far and I'm hanging in there! I have been fortune enough to have always had my choice of teams to work with, so far that has meant great coworkers and very challenging work. If I'm not pounding my head against a wall I'm not having fun. :)
- onemorepassword 14y ago
  I still feel that way after more than 20 years. But it helps a lot if company policy doesn't force you to come in every day, or be in at 9am. And of course if the people involved are people that you like to work with.
joonix 14y ago
I like a mix of both and I like freedom. I want to leave from 10am to 2pm and work at home if I feel like it, without having people judge me for it.
quaunaut 14y ago
I'm new into the industry, but I thought working from home would be a blast. But surprisingly, I'm finding I hate just having nowhere to go during the day, no reason to go outside, see the world, aside from exercise. It saps me of my energy. Sadly, the company I work for is based in a place I couldn't stand to live, but it's telling that even despite that, I'm genuinely thinking about moving there.
- obviouslygreen 14y ago
  I don't mean to be condescending, but the only "telling" thing about that is your inexperience. If you already know it's a place you couldn't stand to live, it's an extremely bad idea to move there. Do not second-guess yourself like this! You will end up regretting it. Telecommuting is not for everyone, but being new to the industry, your perspective is likely to change over the next few years if you stick around. I'm not saying it'll reverse -- you may find that your first impression was right -- but your point of view will be altered by your experiences, and without those experiences to draw on, you cannot expect to have a well-formed impression of this arrangement. Not liking working at home is not a good reason to move to a place where you won't like going outside.
  - quaunaut 14y ago
    This is incredibly true. Though, the main thing keeping me in line right now, is that I'm just over a year away from moving to where I really want to be- Seattle! Once I'm there, I don't know what I'm gonna do. Probably program at a cafe every day.
    - jcheng 14y ago
      When you get to Seattle, check out Office Nomads in Capitol Hill. Sounds like you will find lots of like-minded people there.
- ablativenotion 14y ago
  You might want to look into coworking spaces where people that are not working for the same company, such as freelancers or remote workers, share an office.
vacri 14y ago
I'm much the same, plus I don't have the discipline to work from home. What's on the tv? What's online? Hey, I nearly finished that level in that game! What can I find in the fridge? Plus if you have decent colleagues, it makes the job more enjoyable.
- ido 14y ago
  That used to be the situation for me (or at least I thought it was), but after a few years of being self employed (and most of that time having no choice but to make working from home function) I now have no problems being productive at home (or at least not much more so than at the office).
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
ido 14y ago
What mostly bothers me is the commute, if I can get to the office at any given workplace within half an hour or less door-to-door (preferably 15 minutes & not via car) the barriers to coming to the office are significantly reduced. At any rate I think the optimal situation for me is a mix of both.
- hamidr 14y ago
  Yes. and it sucks even more when the city your living is a crowded one.
jakerocheleau 14y ago
TIL about "rubber ducking" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_duck_debugging http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_duck_debugging
djhworld 14y ago
I think the bigger problem is most working environments are not conducive to productivity or pleasant places to be. You see awesome offices in places like Google, Facebook et al where workers have plenty of space around their desk, and other areas in the building where they can work/socialise/relax. Unfortunately most businesses are not like that, they cram as many people as they can into vast open plan offices where desk space is at a premium and you can forget having a quiet space to work.
- RougeFemme 14y ago
  I don't work in a "Google-style" office, but I'm not stuck in an open plan office, either. I have a spacious (for a cube) cube, but it's not quiet, at least not when certain folks are in the office, which is all too frequent.
smrtinsert 14y ago
Extroverts become energized through contact, but I would say most programmers are not extroverted.

by com2kid 14y ago

enjo 14y ago

Yep! There are times I want to be in the office. There are times I want to be at a coffee shop. There are times I want to be at home. As an executive, I feel like it's my job to provide as much flexibility to my team as I possibly can. Inspiration can strike anywhere, in any environment. I want to capture that for my business. I find that people really appreciate it as well. Really it comes down to meeting management. Limit the requirement for face-time and structure the company in a way that you can minimize how often people have to collaborate. I find this makes the voluntary (and spontaneous) interactions even more valuable. The Yahoo decision really bothers me in a really visceral way. My team is made up of highly skilled professionals who deserve to be treated like adults. Forcing them into the office is the opposite of that (at least to me).

res0nat0r 14y ago
This policy hasn't been set in stone as a permanent measure. I'm sure it is being put in place for now to help the company get its act together to help bring it back from the sub par arena it has been swimming in for so long. Once that hopefully happens then the policy could be lifted.
- outside1234 14y ago
  you mean like at Google. oh wait.
  - res0nat0r 14y ago
    Google and Amazon both don't allow permanent work from home positions.
    - outside1234 14y ago
      exactly.
devcpp 14y ago
Your sound like an executive too, putting emphasis on well-researched words, and mentioning things like capturing inspiration. As far as I've seen, there is little inspiration involved in most programming environments, just a lot of thinking.
- enjo 14y ago
  I'm going to assume this was meant to be insulting. A lot of that is going around on HN these days. It's really too bad. I'll just leave it at this. Isn't inspiration often the end-result of careful thought? I don't see what about an office makes it the right place for the thinking you see in programming environments. I've solved more hard problems in the shower than I have at my desk.
  - dwj 14y ago
    enjo is absolutely right. I regularly require inspiration in order to solve difficult problems. This inspiration generally never happens when sitting in front of a computer screen - most of my ideas come when I am walking, swimming, cycling, etc. Certainly there are many dull development jobs that require no inspiration or even much thinking - I worked in many of them before I got bored to death and started my own business. If you are in one of those dead-end jobs, you're not the kind of person that enjo is talking about.
  - devcpp 14y ago
    Sorry if you found that insulting. I guess I got used to this aspetic cold language you see on HN to make emotion invisible. That's one of the things I miss from Reddit. I know there are many people like you that somehow intuitively capture these abstract concepts, and I respect that. I just find it amusing that you can notice these things even when the person is out of work. That's when you differentiate the manipulative managers from the true ones. My point wasn't particularly focusing in offices. Being pragmatic and rather emotion-less, I find programming requires more logic and method than feelings.

gnosis 14y ago

"In contrast, I am energized by going into the office and working side by side with my peers to solve hard problems." Let me know if you still feel that way in 20 years.

soneca 14y ago
Well, I hope he will! Probably with different peers and surely with different problems. But that would be my goal. Sure, the "into the office" part can change. But I also hope he can change in a range of 20 years, without having the need to be inflexible to what he claim as a preference in the past. Actually, this statement sounded so out of purpose, that I am having a second thought that I maybe have lost something here.
com2kid 14y ago
It's been 7 years so far and I'm hanging in there! I have been fortune enough to have always had my choice of teams to work with, so far that has meant great coworkers and very challenging work. If I'm not pounding my head against a wall I'm not having fun. :)
onemorepassword 14y ago
I still feel that way after more than 20 years. But it helps a lot if company policy doesn't force you to come in every day, or be in at 9am. And of course if the people involved are people that you like to work with.

joonix 14y ago

I like a mix of both and I like freedom. I want to leave from 10am to 2pm and work at home if I feel like it, without having people judge me for it.

quaunaut 14y ago

I'm new into the industry, but I thought working from home would be a blast. But surprisingly, I'm finding I hate just having nowhere to go during the day, no reason to go outside, see the world, aside from exercise. It saps me of my energy. Sadly, the company I work for is based in a place I couldn't stand to live, but it's telling that even despite that, I'm genuinely thinking about moving there.

obviouslygreen 14y ago
I don't mean to be condescending, but the only "telling" thing about that is your inexperience. If you already know it's a place you couldn't stand to live, it's an extremely bad idea to move there. Do not second-guess yourself like this! You will end up regretting it. Telecommuting is not for everyone, but being new to the industry, your perspective is likely to change over the next few years if you stick around. I'm not saying it'll reverse -- you may find that your first impression was right -- but your point of view will be altered by your experiences, and without those experiences to draw on, you cannot expect to have a well-formed impression of this arrangement. Not liking working at home is not a good reason to move to a place where you won't like going outside.
- quaunaut 14y ago
  This is incredibly true. Though, the main thing keeping me in line right now, is that I'm just over a year away from moving to where I really want to be- Seattle! Once I'm there, I don't know what I'm gonna do. Probably program at a cafe every day.
  - jcheng 14y ago
    When you get to Seattle, check out Office Nomads in Capitol Hill. Sounds like you will find lots of like-minded people there.
ablativenotion 14y ago
You might want to look into coworking spaces where people that are not working for the same company, such as freelancers or remote workers, share an office.

vacri 14y ago

I'm much the same, plus I don't have the discipline to work from home. What's on the tv? What's online? Hey, I nearly finished that level in that game! What can I find in the fridge? Plus if you have decent colleagues, it makes the job more enjoyable.

ido 14y ago
That used to be the situation for me (or at least I thought it was), but after a few years of being self employed (and most of that time having no choice but to make working from home function) I now have no problems being productive at home (or at least not much more so than at the office).

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

ido 14y ago

What mostly bothers me is the commute, if I can get to the office at any given workplace within half an hour or less door-to-door (preferably 15 minutes & not via car) the barriers to coming to the office are significantly reduced. At any rate I think the optimal situation for me is a mix of both.

hamidr 14y ago
Yes. and it sucks even more when the city your living is a crowded one.

jakerocheleau 14y ago

TIL about "rubber ducking" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_duck_debugging http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_duck_debugging

djhworld 14y ago

I think the bigger problem is most working environments are not conducive to productivity or pleasant places to be. You see awesome offices in places like Google, Facebook et al where workers have plenty of space around their desk, and other areas in the building where they can work/socialise/relax. Unfortunately most businesses are not like that, they cram as many people as they can into vast open plan offices where desk space is at a premium and you can forget having a quiet space to work.

RougeFemme 14y ago
I don't work in a "Google-style" office, but I'm not stuck in an open plan office, either. I have a spacious (for a cube) cube, but it's not quiet, at least not when certain folks are in the office, which is all too frequent.

smrtinsert 14y ago

Extroverts become energized through contact, but I would say most programmers are not extroverted.